Who is to blame?

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Who is to blame?

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Mapletree Croydon 19 Dec 19 11.04pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Would anyone here send a child to this guy's nursery? As an observation, did you send your boys to nursery school? If so, in which location?
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Mapletree

Croydon 19 Dec 19 11.04pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Would anyone here send a child to this guy's nursery?

As an observation, did you send your boys to nursery school?

If so, in which location?

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ex hibitionist Hastings 19 Dec 19 11.59pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle How many people would have agreed with PR if UKIP had gained the 83 seats they were due in 2015? at least 4 million (who voted UKIP)
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ex hibitionist

Hastings 19 Dec 19 11.59pm

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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

How many people would have agreed with PR if UKIP had gained the 83 seats they were due in 2015?

at least 4 million (who voted UKIP)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 20 Dec 19 12.11am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle 1. That's simple to answer. If people keep making claims I disagree with then no-one ought be surprised when I keep on stating the alternative views. Other groups "get it" first time. What also happens here in some cases is a blank wall response. A failing of comprehension rather than any alternative opinions to debate with. 2. Of course not. I am not part of the buddy buddy cosy bias confirmation group who cuddle together for mutual support. You should try going onto a few liberal leaning groups and see what response you get, although I expect it would be a lot more respectful and polite than here. These kind of basics are learnt in childhood when you get your first cold shoulder. 3. No they aren't. I learned resilience and to have confidence in my opinions rather than to just follow the herd. It takes balls to do that, whilst the cowards act like sheep. In my nursery any kid who showed an outsider the cold shoulder was taught a hard lesson. As a society we have outlawed bullying and progressed from the dark days when such things were normal. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (19 Dec 2019 12.59pm) 1. Do you know how delusional and pompous that sounds and you can sound? 2. I was referring to you stating the same point 30 times a day in walls of text. I’d expect to get some short shrift lecturing people daily with the same incorrect fact or or practice in reality. 3. Cowards? Balls? Don’t be daft. Maybe we should send both ‘How to win friends and influence people.’ 4. I wasn’t necessarily referring to nursery. Most kids up to and including adulthood would just swerve self proclaimed know all’s who’d batter them everyday on why they’re wrong, especially when they aren’t. Not all academically intelligent people possess all forms of intelligence though so as you are. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 20 Dec 19 12.11am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

1. That's simple to answer. If people keep making claims I disagree with then no-one ought be surprised when I keep on stating the alternative views. Other groups "get it" first time. What also happens here in some cases is a blank wall response. A failing of comprehension rather than any alternative opinions to debate with.

2. Of course not. I am not part of the buddy buddy cosy bias confirmation group who cuddle together for mutual support. You should try going onto a few liberal leaning groups and see what response you get, although I expect it would be a lot more respectful and polite than here.

These kind of basics are learnt in childhood when you get your first cold shoulder.

3. No they aren't. I learned resilience and to have confidence in my opinions rather than to just follow the herd. It takes balls to do that, whilst the cowards act like sheep. In my nursery any kid who showed an outsider the cold shoulder was taught a hard lesson. As a society we have outlawed bullying and progressed from the dark days when such things were normal.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (19 Dec 2019 12.59pm)

1. Do you know how delusional and pompous that sounds and you can sound?

2. I was referring to you stating the same point 30 times a day in walls of text. I’d expect to get some short shrift lecturing people daily with the same incorrect fact or or practice in reality.

3. Cowards? Balls? Don’t be daft. Maybe we should send both ‘How to win friends and influence people.’

4. I wasn’t necessarily referring to nursery. Most kids up to and including adulthood would just swerve self proclaimed know all’s who’d batter them everyday on why they’re wrong, especially when they aren’t.

Not all academically intelligent people possess all forms of intelligence though so as you are.

COYP

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Teddy Eagle 20 Dec 19 12.15am
Originally posted by ex hibitionist at least 4 million (who voted UKIP) Good point but I meant of those so vehemently opposed to the current majority.
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Teddy Eagle

20 Dec 19 12.15am

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

at least 4 million (who voted UKIP)

Good point but I meant of those so vehemently opposed to the current majority.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 19 12.32am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle How many people would have agreed with PR if UKIP had gained the 83 seats they were due in 2015? I would. Their voice needed to be heard and the arguments made in the right place, and hopefully defeated. If that had happened I don't think there would have been any justification for calling for a referendum. My calculations suggest that PR would have returned 238 Tories, 198 Labour, 31 SNP, 51 LibDems, 82 UKIP and 25 Greens. All but the Tories and SNP would have gained significantly, the Tories losing a lot. The very small parties would make up the balance. It would have resulted in a hung Parliament and the horse trading would have started. Farage would no doubt have demanded a referendum as his price for supporting the Tories but that wouldn't have been enough on it's own. I am also not so sure that the Tories would have agreed back then as I don't think they would have included it in their manifesto under PR. Whether Labour could have put together a working coalition is an open question but it could not have lasted long. What's for sure is that the balance of views across the country would have been more fairly represented and the issues that concern them addressed. Whether that was UKIP and the EU or the environment and the Greens doesn't matter. People care about these things and that's enough. Of course this is all theoretical as under PR the smaller parties may well have contested many more seats just to get the votes and demonstrate wide support. Under first past the post some decide only to contest where there is a realistic chance of success. So what the actual seat distribution would have been remains an unknown. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (20 Dec 2019 1.22am) For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 19 12.32am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

How many people would have agreed with PR if UKIP had gained the 83 seats they were due in 2015?

I would. Their voice needed to be heard and the arguments made in the right place, and hopefully defeated. If that had happened I don't think there would have been any justification for calling for a referendum.

My calculations suggest that PR would have returned 238 Tories, 198 Labour, 31 SNP, 51 LibDems, 82 UKIP and 25 Greens. All but the Tories and SNP would have gained significantly, the Tories losing a lot. The very small parties would make up the balance.

It would have resulted in a hung Parliament and the horse trading would have started. Farage would no doubt have demanded a referendum as his price for supporting the Tories but that wouldn't have been enough on it's own. I am also not so sure that the Tories would have agreed back then as I don't think they would have included it in their manifesto under PR.

Whether Labour could have put together a working coalition is an open question but it could not have lasted long. What's for sure is that the balance of views across the country would have been more fairly represented and the issues that concern them addressed. Whether that was UKIP and the EU or the environment and the Greens doesn't matter. People care about these things and that's enough.

Of course this is all theoretical as under PR the smaller parties may well have contested many more seats just to get the votes and demonstrate wide support. Under first past the post some decide only to contest where there is a realistic chance of success. So what the actual seat distribution would have been remains an unknown.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (20 Dec 2019 1.22am)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 19 12.46am
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman 1. Do you know how delusional and pompous that sounds and you can sound? That's always a personal reaction. My style is my style. Some like it. Some don't. You are not ever obliged to read it. 2. I was referring to you stating the same point 30 times a day in walls of text. I’d expect to get some short shrift lecturing people daily with the same incorrect fact or or practice in reality. Now even you must acknowledge that's a wild exaggeration. I almost always am responding to claims with counter claims, so if the same claims are made by a large number of people who I think are just in the process of bias confirmation, then the counter claims are equally repetitive. The answer is in your own hands. 3. Cowards? Balls? Don’t be daft. Maybe we should send both ‘How to win friends and influence people.’ I could tell you a few highly relevant stories to support my views but won't waste my time. 4. I wasn’t necessarily referring to nursery. Most kids up to and including adulthood would just swerve self proclaimed know all’s who’d batter them everyday on why they’re wrong, especially when they aren’t. Are you suggesting I think I am a "know it all"? I can assure that whilst I know something there's a lot I still have to learn. My quest for knowledge and experiences are undiminished. Not all academically intelligent people possess all forms of intelligence though so as you are. I attended a secondary modern school and left at 16 to work as a clerk in the City. What I have learned has been gained from the University of Life and hard won experience. Not a lot of academically acquired intelligence in me I am afraid. It must be in the genes, if at all! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 19 12.46am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

1. Do you know how delusional and pompous that sounds and you can sound?

That's always a personal reaction. My style is my style. Some like it. Some don't. You are not ever obliged to read it.

2. I was referring to you stating the same point 30 times a day in walls of text. I’d expect to get some short shrift lecturing people daily with the same incorrect fact or or practice in reality.

Now even you must acknowledge that's a wild exaggeration. I almost always am responding to claims with counter claims, so if the same claims are made by a large number of people who I think are just in the process of bias confirmation, then the counter claims are equally repetitive. The answer is in your own hands.

3. Cowards? Balls? Don’t be daft. Maybe we should send both ‘How to win friends and influence people.’

I could tell you a few highly relevant stories to support my views but won't waste my time.

Are you suggesting I think I am a "know it all"? I can assure that whilst I know something there's a lot I still have to learn. My quest for knowledge and experiences are undiminished.

Not all academically intelligent people possess all forms of intelligence though so as you are.

I attended a secondary modern school and left at 16 to work as a clerk in the City. What I have learned has been gained from the University of Life and hard won experience. Not a lot of academically acquired intelligence in me I am afraid. It must be in the genes, if at all!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Teddy Eagle 20 Dec 19 1.02am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I would. Their voice needed to be heard and the arguments made in the right place, and hopefully defeated. If that had happened I don't think there would have been any justification for calling for a referendum. My calculations suggest that PR would have returned 238 Tories, 198 Labour, 31 SNP, 51 LibDems, 82 UKIP and 25 Greens. All but the Tories and SNP would have gained significantly, the Tories losing a lot. The very small parties would make up the balance. It would have resulted in a hung Parliament and the horse trading would have started. Farage would no doubt have demanded a referendum as his price for supporting the Tories but that wouldn't have been enough on it's own. I am also not so sure that the Tories would have agreed back then. Whether Labour could have put together a working coalition is an open question but it could not have lasted long. What's for sure is that the balance of views across the country would have been more fairly represented and the issues that concern them addressed. Whether that was UKIP and the EU or the environment and the Greens doesn't matter. People care about these things and that's enough. According to the Independent under PR the seats would have been Tories 288 Labour 216 SNP 28 Lib Dem 70 Green 12 Brexit 10 with the balance shared between Plaid Cmyru, DUP, etc.
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Teddy Eagle

20 Dec 19 1.02am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

According to the Independent under PR the seats would have been
Tories 288
Labour 216
SNP 28
Lib Dem 70
Green 12
Brexit 10
with the balance shared between Plaid Cmyru, DUP, etc.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 19 1.20am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Removed as duplicate Edited by Wisbech Eagle (20 Dec 2019 10.01am) For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 19 1.26am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle According to the Independent under PR the seats would have been Tories 288 Labour 216 SNP 28 Lib Dem 70 Green 12 Brexit 10 with the balance shared between Plaid Cmyru, DUP, etc. That's obviously for the recent election whilst mine was a quick one on the 2015 one. It's an interesting subject though and the figures above are thought provoking. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 19 1.26am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

According to the Independent under PR the seats would have been
Tories 288
Labour 216
SNP 28
Lib Dem 70
Green 12
Brexit 10
with the balance shared between Plaid Cmyru, DUP, etc.

That's obviously for the recent election whilst mine was a quick one on the 2015 one.

It's an interesting subject though and the figures above are thought provoking.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 20 Dec 19 3.41am
Originally posted by silvertop Germany Holland all the scandinavians... their quality of life really struggles under the tyranny of PR and "weak" government. By all means Becky let us argue over politics. However please don't regurgitate the piffle spouted by both labour and conservative who benefit entirely from a banjacksed version of democracy designed to maintain a 2 party state. All countries the right is making considerable gains in. Perhaps your view is a little romantic. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Dec 19 3.41am

Originally posted by silvertop

Germany Holland all the scandinavians... their quality of life really struggles under the tyranny of PR and "weak" government.

By all means Becky let us argue over politics. However please don't regurgitate the piffle spouted by both labour and conservative who benefit entirely from a banjacksed version of democracy designed to maintain a 2 party state.

All countries the right is making considerable gains in.

Perhaps your view is a little romantic.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 20 Dec 19 3.46am
PR has both positive and negative aspects. One thing is for certain we would never have had the ability to Brexit with a PR political map. So I'm not a fan....PR is a way of stopping anything significant from happening. Anyway the issue is dead. We had a referendum on a form of it and it lost. We are a FPTP nation. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Dec 2019 3.47am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Dec 19 3.46am

PR has both positive and negative aspects. One thing is for certain we would never have had the ability to Brexit with a PR political map.

So I'm not a fan....PR is a way of stopping anything significant from happening.

Anyway the issue is dead. We had a referendum on a form of it and it lost.

We are a FPTP nation.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Dec 2019 3.47am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Teddy Eagle 20 Dec 19 6.24am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays PR has both positive and negative aspects. One thing is for certain we would never have had the ability to Brexit with a PR political map. So I'm not a fan....PR is a way of stopping anything significant from happening. Anyway the issue is dead. We had a referendum on a form of it and it lost. We are a FPTP nation. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Dec 2019 3.47am) We did - in 2011 when 32.10% voted to change the system. At the time the Conservatives wanted to retain FPTP while Labour had no official position.
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Teddy Eagle

20 Dec 19 6.24am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

PR has both positive and negative aspects. One thing is for certain we would never have had the ability to Brexit with a PR political map.

So I'm not a fan....PR is a way of stopping anything significant from happening.

Anyway the issue is dead. We had a referendum on a form of it and it lost.

We are a FPTP nation.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Dec 2019 3.47am)

We did - in 2011 when 32.10% voted to change the system. At the time the Conservatives wanted to retain FPTP while Labour had no official position.

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