Jeremy Corbyn

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Stirlingsays 28 Feb 17 3.12pm
Originally posted by OknotOK Except he hasn't. Or at the very least the message he is now putting out should have a healthy degree of scepticism applied to it. Now he claims that he didn't know what was on his website (which may or may not be true) but that he was there. Despite more than one of his contemporaries saying that they didn't think he was there, that he never talked about being there, and that he wasn't believed to have been there by the school who were providing in depth counselling and support to the children who did attend. So even when he has apparently come clean, he still looks to be lying. Now he may not, but there is more than an element of doubt. I will agree that it hasn't got anything to do with the specific politics of Stoke, other than to suggest he is a lying little toerag who was looking to pick up support and sympathy for something that he had no right to do so (oh and that Corbyn clearly is not losing because he is too centrist) This is the problem. We don't know what the truth is here. Some people decide out of prejudice rather than any facts. The smear campaign wasn't a good thing....Something Labour supporters are always complaining about with Corbyn but are always quiet about when it advantages them. It damaged the Ukip vote in Stoke. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Feb 17 3.12pm

Originally posted by OknotOK

Except he hasn't. Or at the very least the message he is now putting out should have a healthy degree of scepticism applied to it.

Now he claims that he didn't know what was on his website (which may or may not be true) but that he was there. Despite more than one of his contemporaries saying that they didn't think he was there, that he never talked about being there, and that he wasn't believed to have been there by the school who were providing in depth counselling and support to the children who did attend.

So even when he has apparently come clean, he still looks to be lying. Now he may not, but there is more than an element of doubt.

I will agree that it hasn't got anything to do with the specific politics of Stoke, other than to suggest he is a lying little toerag who was looking to pick up support and sympathy for something that he had no right to do so (oh and that Corbyn clearly is not losing because he is too centrist)

This is the problem. We don't know what the truth is here. Some people decide out of prejudice rather than any facts.

The smear campaign wasn't a good thing....Something Labour supporters are always complaining about with Corbyn but are always quiet about when it advantages them.

It damaged the Ukip vote in Stoke.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 28 Feb 17 3.26pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays This is the problem. We don't know what the truth is here. Some people decide out of prejudice rather than any facts. The smear campaign wasn't a good thing....Something Labour supporters are always complaining about with Corbyn but are always quiet about when it advantages them. It damaged the Ukip vote in Stoke. I think Nuttalls lies damaged the UKIP vote in Stoke.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 28 Feb 17 3.26pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

This is the problem. We don't know what the truth is here. Some people decide out of prejudice rather than any facts.

The smear campaign wasn't a good thing....Something Labour supporters are always complaining about with Corbyn but are always quiet about when it advantages them.

It damaged the Ukip vote in Stoke.

I think Nuttalls lies damaged the UKIP vote in Stoke.

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Feb 17 3.49pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 UKIP should disband and its members join the Conservatives and its supporters vote for May. They Tories would have won Stoke if it wasn't for UKIP splitting their vote. I'm not sure. UKIP stand as a warning to any government that we will no longer accept the destructive force that is mass immigration. When we reduce free movement from Europe we must then heavily reduce migration from the rest of the world because that is were the majority will come from in the future. Their has to be a voice which shouts louder than the naive fools of the liberal left. I would not trust the Tories to do this without the threat of a more right wing country on their shoulder.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Feb 17 3.49pm

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Originally posted by hedgehog50

UKIP should disband and its members join the Conservatives and its supporters vote for May. They Tories would have won Stoke if it wasn't for UKIP splitting their vote.

I'm not sure.

UKIP stand as a warning to any government that we will no longer accept the destructive force that is mass immigration.
When we reduce free movement from Europe we must then heavily reduce migration from the rest of the world because that is were the majority will come from in the future. Their has to be a voice which shouts louder than the naive fools of the liberal left. I would not trust the Tories to do this without the threat of a more right wing country on their shoulder.

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npn Crowborough 28 Feb 17 3.51pm
Originally posted by serial thriller But you still ain't answered a fundamental question I'm posing. If brexit goes through by 2020, and if immigration, as it is doing, becomes almost 0, who are we going to blame that the country is still in the shot, that we still are the most unequal country in Europe, that our high streets and societies are still radically changing, that our public services are a mess and we don't have enough people to care for the elderly, teach our kids, work in our hospitals? Like I say, I fear it will be blamed once again on the 'enemy within' i.e. migrants already in this country. This is a crucial element of fascism, to not only alienate ourselves from those beyond our borders, but to also antagonism a group of citizens within our own nation. I am saying, and I really, really wish Corbyn would say it loud and clear, that it is the huge potnof money in the middle of London, which we spent billions bailing out without any democratic input, and who have given us none of that money back, but instead watched on as we descend further and further in to austerity because of them, while they channel the money of corporations who are killing off local businesses, driving wages down and raise their own bonuses ever higher. Serial, what makes you think immigration will reduce to anything like zero? I'm not anticipating a massive drop in immigration, just a fall in uncontrolled immigration. In fact, Hasn't Amber Rudd recently said immigration won't drop significantly in the medium term?
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npn

Crowborough 28 Feb 17 3.51pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

But you still ain't answered a fundamental question I'm posing. If brexit goes through by 2020, and if immigration, as it is doing, becomes almost 0, who are we going to blame that the country is still in the shot, that we still are the most unequal country in Europe, that our high streets and societies are still radically changing, that our public services are a mess and we don't have enough people to care for the elderly, teach our kids, work in our hospitals?

Like I say, I fear it will be blamed once again on the 'enemy within' i.e. migrants already in this country. This is a crucial element of fascism, to not only alienate ourselves from those beyond our borders, but to also antagonism a group of citizens within our own nation.

I am saying, and I really, really wish Corbyn would say it loud and clear, that it is the huge potnof money in the middle of London, which we spent billions bailing out without any democratic input, and who have given us none of that money back, but instead watched on as we descend further and further in to austerity because of them, while they channel the money of corporations who are killing off local businesses, driving wages down and raise their own bonuses ever higher.

Serial, what makes you think immigration will reduce to anything like zero? I'm not anticipating a massive drop in immigration, just a fall in uncontrolled immigration. In fact, Hasn't Amber Rudd recently said immigration won't drop significantly in the medium term?

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 28 Feb 17 4.00pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays This is the problem. We don't know what the truth is here. Some people decide out of prejudice rather than any facts. The smear campaign wasn't a good thing....Something Labour supporters are always complaining about with Corbyn but are always quiet about when it advantages them. It damaged the Ukip vote in Stoke. Hypocrisy is definitely not restricted to the Left (or Labour). No we don't know the truth, but it certainly makes him look unreliable/untrustworthy which is not a good quality in a candidate. At the least it means he has paid insufficient detail to his own propaganda and should be censured for that. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 28 Feb 17 4.00pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

This is the problem. We don't know what the truth is here. Some people decide out of prejudice rather than any facts.

The smear campaign wasn't a good thing....Something Labour supporters are always complaining about with Corbyn but are always quiet about when it advantages them.

It damaged the Ukip vote in Stoke.

Hypocrisy is definitely not restricted to the Left (or Labour).

No we don't know the truth, but it certainly makes him look unreliable/untrustworthy which is not a good quality in a candidate. At the least it means he has paid insufficient detail to his own propaganda and should be censured for that.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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hedgehog50 Croydon 28 Feb 17 4.04pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I'm not sure. UKIP stand as a warning to any government that we will no longer accept the destructive force that is mass immigration. When we reduce free movement from Europe we must then heavily reduce migration from the rest of the world because that is were the majority will come from in the future. Their has to be a voice which shouts louder than the naive fools of the liberal left. I would not trust the Tories to do this without the threat of a more right wing country on their shoulder. UKIP is/was a one issue movement, and they have achieved what they set out to do. The rest of their policies are basically Tory ones anyway. Theresa May is implementing the decision of the referendum and is doing a good job as Prime Minister. She could do without UKIP still splitting the Tory vote. Edited by hedgehog50 (28 Feb 2017 4.04pm) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 28 Feb 17 4.04pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I'm not sure.

UKIP is/was a one issue movement, and they have achieved what they set out to do. The rest of their policies are basically Tory ones anyway. Theresa May is implementing the decision of the referendum and is doing a good job as Prime Minister. She could do without UKIP still splitting the Tory vote.

Edited by hedgehog50 (28 Feb 2017 4.04pm)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 28 Feb 17 4.24pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 UKIP is/was a one issue movement, and they have achieved what they set out to do. The rest of their policies are basically Tory ones anyway. Theresa May is implementing the decision of the referendum and is doing a good job as Prime Minister. She could do without UKIP still splitting the Tory vote. Edited by hedgehog50 (28 Feb 2017 4.04pm) I don't think UKIP quite knows what it's policies are outside of Brexit. Aaron Banks is out there today moaning about Paul Nuttall going "Red UKIP" and adopting Labour policies in the Stoke by election. He is a major funder and so has influence but he doesn't speak for the party so it's fair to say at the moment, they are not just Tories wearing purple. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 28 Feb 17 4.24pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Edited by hedgehog50 (28 Feb 2017 4.04pm)

I don't think UKIP quite knows what it's policies are outside of Brexit.

Aaron Banks is out there today moaning about Paul Nuttall going "Red UKIP" and adopting Labour policies in the Stoke by election. He is a major funder and so has influence but he doesn't speak for the party so it's fair to say at the moment, they are not just Tories wearing purple.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Feb 17 4.31pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 UKIP is/was a one issue movement, and they have achieved what they set out to do. The rest of their policies are basically Tory ones anyway. Theresa May is implementing the decision of the referendum and is doing a good job as Prime Minister. She could do without UKIP still splitting the Tory vote. Edited by hedgehog50 (28 Feb 2017 4.04pm) Not sure that matters much right now with Corbyn around. The Tories will win the next election with or without UKIP I feel that there will be many more battles in the future beyond Brexit and the people need a protest vote. If the Tories cut total immigration significantly and look after the majority then they have nothing to fear from UKIP.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Feb 17 4.31pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

UKIP is/was a one issue movement, and they have achieved what they set out to do. The rest of their policies are basically Tory ones anyway. Theresa May is implementing the decision of the referendum and is doing a good job as Prime Minister. She could do without UKIP still splitting the Tory vote.

Edited by hedgehog50 (28 Feb 2017 4.04pm)

Not sure that matters much right now with Corbyn around. The Tories will win the next election with or without UKIP
I feel that there will be many more battles in the future beyond Brexit and the people need a protest vote. If the Tories cut total immigration significantly and look after the majority then they have nothing to fear from UKIP.

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We are goin up! Coulsdon 28 Feb 17 5.52pm
Originally posted by OknotOK I don't think UKIP quite knows what it's policies are outside of Brexit. Aaron Banks is out there today moaning about Paul Nuttall going "Red UKIP" and adopting Labour policies in the Stoke by election. He is a major funder and so has influence but he doesn't speak for the party so it's fair to say at the moment, they are not just Tories wearing purple. Agree on all this, to be honest they probably need a new name or at least a re-brand. They've still got the same logo they've had for years, a £ sign, and they've achieved Brexit. They need to move on from those battles and fight on a new front. I think they're trying to do this, but there are two different opinions on which way to go. Nuttall wants to target the patriotic Labour vote, with low immigration but sizeable welfare state on the ballot, whereas Carswell wants the party to become much more libertarian. Tough choice, both have their positives and negatives. The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
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We are goin up!

Coulsdon 28 Feb 17 5.52pm

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Originally posted by OknotOK

I don't think UKIP quite knows what it's policies are outside of Brexit.

Agree on all this, to be honest they probably need a new name or at least a re-brand. They've still got the same logo they've had for years, a £ sign, and they've achieved Brexit.

They need to move on from those battles and fight on a new front. I think they're trying to do this, but there are two different opinions on which way to go. Nuttall wants to target the patriotic Labour vote, with low immigration but sizeable welfare state on the ballot, whereas Carswell wants the party to become much more libertarian. Tough choice, both have their positives and negatives.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 28 Feb 17 5.57pm
[Link] The NHS is crumbling, but hey, man falls asleep on train is much more important.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 28 Feb 17 5.57pm

[Link]

The NHS is crumbling, but hey, man falls asleep on train is much more important.

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Feb 17 6.24pm
Originally posted by nickgusset [Link] The NHS is crumbling, but hey, man falls asleep on train is much more important. So what are we going to do about the crumbling NHS Nick?
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Feb 17 6.24pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

[Link]

The NHS is crumbling, but hey, man falls asleep on train is much more important.

So what are we going to do about the crumbling NHS Nick?

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 28 Feb 17 6.32pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger So what are we going to do about the crumbling NHS Nick? You wont do much. You cant even provide a link to a news story.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 28 Feb 17 6.32pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So what are we going to do about the crumbling NHS Nick?

You wont do much. You cant even provide a link to a news story.

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