I think Europe is f***ed in the short to mid term in relative terms...beyond that it's always hard to say. I think the picture differs for individual countries dependent upon culture, networks and wealth.....For us in the UK (if we don't get nuked), the standard of living will drag the middle class wealth down...well relatively anyway....and the working class will protest and perhaps riot in the UK but food banks and MMT will....at least in the short to mid term suffice. Once the war ends things will improve...but long term we have very real problems as most of us know.

Do I think starvation happens in Europe?....No, for us I see high prices and shortages, in my view starvation is a considerable risk for the third and second world....who will increasingly turn to BRICs because they have the wheat and gas taps.

It's going to get tough this winter wherever we are....Personally I don't think this war will continue past the winter and I'm going for an end by Xmas.....Economically and politically it's too damaging for everybody.....we are playing the game of who can hold their breath under water the longest.....and, in my view, once we drove Russia to China the result was decided.

Low quality elites.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jul 2022 12.49pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

We’ll thank you.

What do you and Wisbech suggest then? Do we provoke a more in depth war or just nuke the hell out of them and hope we do it quickly enough.

When people talk in these terms I’m not sure what a real show of strength is and how far it goes. How do you argue with someone who is just as likely to start a catastrophic war as he is any other course of action.

[Tweet Link]

Russia targeting civilians because they are trying to pressure Zelensky, in turn face saving for Russian army performance ; they have drastically drawn back their plans - 3 days to take Kyiv ?

30 ammunition bases destroyed by himars since their arrival and now Ruscists resorting to getting recruits from prisons to fight.

[Tweet Link]

That's right. We have to accept the pain, because it's ultimately the least bad option. Of course, we also need to ensure that those in the Third World, who are not involved but nevertheless impacted, are helped. Which demands more pain from us. The problem is not making the moral case, it's carrying the people with it. As you can tell from the apologists here, that isn't going to be easy.

When you invent "elite" bogeymen and see conspiracies around every corner in places like "The Great Reset", which is actually a 100% positive attempt to co-ordinate international actions on the pressing problems the whole world faces, then your reasoning is so blown that the fundamentals get missed.

When you also believe you are super smart and all the non-expert voices you use as your sources of "information" are too, then, of course, it's us "normies" who are just following the party line we have been fed by the media. They never, ever, stop to reflect that they might be wrong and things that look like ducks, quack like ducks and waddle like ducks are generally ducks.

No, they are not ducks. They are devious Nato designed animatronic models designed to fool the Russians and encourage them to invade Ukraine, just so the west can test its latest war machines. Why accept the simple explanation when a nice juicy conspiracy theory is much more fun.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.