Originally posted by OknotOK
You're buying into the same narrative. Yes there were local factors (of which the opposition to nuclear power is the biggest) but it's not accepting that Corbyn was a major factor in the loss. And it was a relatively safe seat - held for over 80 years in various guises - in the middle of a parliament with a government who are making huge cuts and so should have been very unpopular. Copeland should have been held comfortably. Winning Copeland and Stoke would have provided the Labour party with a positive narrative and something to build on. Losing Copeland - especially the way they did - was disastrous. And it was materially Corbyn's leadership that was the reason for that loss.
Edited by OknotOK (27 Feb 2017 3.22pm)

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Making a statement like that really demonstrates how out of touch you are with reality.

That is the only reasonable position a leader could take in a world where nuclear weapons exist.
To say you aren't prepared to use your own nuclear weapons disqualifies you from office.

Originally posted by serial thriller

Of course there are major issues which these by elections have shown with the Cornyn movement. He needs to be far more assertive about what he stands for, most people just see him as the same as the rest of the Westminster elite.

But none thing which people I think are underestimating is the power that Labour's ground campaign can bring to the table. People have been sailing for months that UKIP would push Labour close in Stoke, that it would be the final nail in his coffin. Yes, their victory is partlyndown to UKIP falling apart as a party atm (far more than Labour interestingly) but it was also down to the fact that Labour can draw from the biggest membershipnofnany political party in Europe to campaign. Now this may not completely offset the mouthfrothing bile of the national media, but it shows the potential which still remains for a proper grassroots poltical movement to be built.

Originally posted by serial thriller

Of course there are major issues which these by elections have shown with the Cornyn movement. He needs to be far more assertive about what he stands for, most people just see him as the same as the rest of the Westminster elite.

But none thing which people I think are underestimating is the power that Labour's ground campaign can bring to the table. People have been sailing for months that UKIP would push Labour close in Stoke, that it would be the final nail in his coffin. Yes, their victory is partlyndown to UKIP falling apart as a party atm (far more than Labour interestingly) but it was also down to the fact that Labour can draw from the biggest membershipnofnany political party in Europe to campaign. Now this may not completely offset the mouthfrothing bile of the national media, but it shows the potential which still remains for a proper grassroots poltical movement to be built.

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

Nuttall was never going to win once the stories that had been doing the rounds for some time, were in the national press.

Labour's share of the vote actually fell in Stoke.

The Labour membership is split, Momentum have their own agenda and if they follow through on their threat, to deselect MPs, then that will alienate even more middle ground voters.

The fall out from Copeland and the pathetic excuses for defeat in particular Emily Thornberry & Cat Smith will be played over and over again. Labour are viewed to hold most of the country in contempt. The electorate are a little simple, we don't know what we are doing, we don't understand.

They need a change in tack, Corbyn's history means that he will never be trusted, his stance on nuclear power being a prime example. from against it, to ambivalent and the almost supporting it. No one believed him

Originally posted by serial thriller

'That Hillsborough nonsense'. What, that he told a shameless lie about one of the biggest scandals ever to hit his community?

Fact is UKIP are haemorraghing votes to the Tories. People are so focused on Labour doing likewise, but I would say more Labour voters are just not voting now than are voting for someone else. Corbyn needs to rectify this by being far more radical, far more assertive about the values that the movement he represents can offer to people. If he does that, there are millions of dissilusioned people who are there to be won over by a radical alternative to the xenophobic, corporate-sponsored rhetoric of the Tories. If he doesn't they'll fulfill they're dreams of making this country a oligarchic tax haven in a decade.