This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
Spiderman Horsham 25 Apr 20 10.18am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I sincerely hope that's not true from my own selfish viewpoint but we probably we will see some of the poorer run airlines disappear as many of them were already on their last legs with Monarch, Thomas Cook, Flybmi and WOW all going under before the current troubles started Unfortunately I think that this will be the case, maybe we will see more airlines joining forces and more code sharing
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 25 Apr 20 10.34am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Badger11
This is a non story unless somebody else speaks out. He was an observer along with others and if you think about that it is perfectly logical. No 10 needs to understand the thinking of the body and how they arrive at their decisions after all the politicians will have to defend the policy to the rest of us. It makes sense then for no 10's Chief political advisor to listen in along with other civil servants. Now if it turns out that he was pushing the experts in a certain direction then that is political interference and certainly a story. However so far I have been surprised at the lack of senior experts disagreeing with the current policy. Yes outsiders have had their say but we haven't seen people from within quitting and publicly berating the government for ignoring the facts..... So for this story to run we need a smoking gun otherwise it's just journalists making mischief against their chief hate figure. The issue is not that such meetings have observers there but that these meetings had that particular observer there. Cummings has a history and a well deserved reputation. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that his influence goes well beyond that of "adviser". Look at how he has replaced the advisory team at the Treasury with his own, forcing Javid's resignation. Not wanting to publish the names of the attendees is more circumstantial evidence that they knew it would raise questions. It doesn't seem likely he would directly interfere in the discussions but the way he would report them and interpret their conclusions is what concerns people, because of his history. So there is plenty of smoke to search through to find the guns.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Apr 20 10.40am | |
---|---|
Yet plenty of medical experts have commended the government for the actions taken (not inc PPE and testing). It’s only medical people nothing to do with decisions or even this country who’ve criticised actions taken, and that’s because they in favour of no lockdowns at all. It is a complete non story.
COYP |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 25 Apr 20 10.43am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I sincerely hope that's not true from my own selfish viewpoint but we probably we will see some of the poorer run airlines disappear as many of them were already on their last legs with Monarch, Thomas Cook, Flybmi and WOW all going under before the current troubles started Restoring confidence that it's safe to be on board an aircraft in close proximity for what can be many hours is what is going to have to be established. Social distancing at airports is possible, but not on board a plane in a way which means they can operate in any financially viable way. Keeping the middle seats vacant feels like window dressing to me. So I am wondering if regular flying won't resume until a vaccine has been developed and made available to all. Then the airlines could insist on everyone showing a certificate of vaccination on booking and prior to boarding, alongside your ID. Some countries may well demand vaccination evidence as a condition of an entry visa. This won't be too much of a problem for us, where the anti vaccine people are a small minority but in the USA it could very well be.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Midlands Eagle 25 Apr 20 11.01am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
It’s only medical people nothing to do with decisions or even this country who’ve criticised actions taken, and that’s because they in favour of no lockdowns at all. And certain HOL members
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Midlands Eagle 25 Apr 20 11.02am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I'll wear a hasmat suit if necessary
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Apr 20 11.12am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Restoring confidence that it's safe to be on board an aircraft in close proximity for what can be many hours is what is going to have to be established. Social distancing at airports is possible, but not on board a plane in a way which means they can operate in any financially viable way. Keeping the middle seats vacant feels like window dressing to me. So I am wondering if regular flying won't resume until a vaccine has been developed and made available to all. Then the airlines could insist on everyone showing a certificate of vaccination on booking and prior to boarding, alongside your ID. Some countries may well demand vaccination evidence as a condition of an entry visa. This won't be too much of a problem for us, where the anti vaccine people are a small minority but in the USA it could very well be. Aren’t they likely never to leave the USA or their even their state?
COYP |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Spiderman Horsham 25 Apr 20 11.16am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Restoring confidence that it's safe to be on board an aircraft in close proximity for what can be many hours is what is going to have to be established. Social distancing at airports is possible, but not on board a plane in a way which means they can operate in any financially viable way. Keeping the middle seats vacant feels like window dressing to me. So I am wondering if regular flying won't resume until a vaccine has been developed and made available to all. Then the airlines could insist on everyone showing a certificate of vaccination on booking and prior to boarding, alongside your ID. Some countries may well demand vaccination evidence as a condition of an entry visa. This won't be too much of a problem for us, where the anti vaccine people are a small minority but in the USA it could very well be. I agree that social distancing on an aircraft will be very difficult if not impossible, you have to also consider the well being/ safety of the crew.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
SavoyTruffle 25 Apr 20 11.31am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Badger11
This is a non story unless somebody else speaks out. He was an observer along with others and if you think about that it is perfectly logical. No 10 needs to understand the thinking of the body and how they arrive at their decisions after all the politicians will have to defend the policy to the rest of us. It makes sense then for no 10's Chief political advisor to listen in along with other civil servants. Now if it turns out that he was pushing the experts in a certain direction then that is political interference and certainly a story. However so far I have been surprised at the lack of senior experts disagreeing with the current policy. Yes outsiders have had their say but we haven't seen people from within quitting and publicly berating the government for ignoring the facts..... So for this story to run we need a smoking gun otherwise it's just journalists making mischief against their chief hate figure. Not sure where you have heard that from, that’s certainly not what the article is alleging... - ‘ Sage participants told the Guardian the Downing Street advisers were not merely observing the advisory meetings, but actively participating in discussions about the formation of advice.’ This story has picked up more traction this morning than I expected so I’m sure there will be further investigation in the coming weeks and potentially pressure to release minutes from the meetings. The crux is that these are supposed to be ‘independent’ public health meetings for qualified scientists and government experts... not political strategists. What were criteria for Cummings admission to SAGE? He doesn't have a degree in a science based subject (or PhD, or postdoctoral training or publications in eminent journals, or experience running research group. The word independent certainly can be questioned if his only qualification is that he is part of the PMs chief team. Of course Cummings is well within his rights to give his summary of the SAGE meetings to the PM and advise based off that, but the allegation that he played an active role in shaping policy is concerning, especially when our reaction in the early stages differed so much to the rest of Europe.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Apr 20 11.31am | |
---|---|
All very possible. Air travel may very well stop being an expectation for quite a while. Makes the EU remain freedoms argument null and void. It’s going to be a different decade.
COYP |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 25 Apr 20 11.52am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Spiderman
I agree that social distancing on an aircraft will be very difficult if not impossible, you have to also consider the well being/ safety of the crew. I agree but if vaccinations are insisted upon for those flying and those working there then social distancing won't be needed. It could only be a temporary requirement during a build up phase.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 25 Apr 20 11.56am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Aren’t they likely never to leave the USA or their even their state? The way things are looking that seems very possible. I don't know whether you are aware but right now there is a surge of conspiracy theories in the USA involving the idea that Bill Gates is promoting vaccines for some kind of population control and that the real cause of the lockdown is not C19 but the roll out of 5G. As a consequence people are stating they won't accept a vaccine.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Registration is now on our new message board
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.