As a matter of interest, what is your view on the abortion amendment in the Public Order Bill? It was supported by the overwhelming number of MPs from all parties.

There was guest house in Cornwall that tried to do just that. For religious reasons they. disapproved of homosexuality but knew they couldn’t openly ban it. So they refused double rooms to same sex couples.

That ended in a Court case which they lost. They refused to change so had to close their business.

Not the same thing and they were wrong not to honour the booking.

As we have pointed out repeatedly the cake shop owners were happy to sell a cake but not with that message. The equivalent to the guest house would be the guests demanding that they be allowed to hang a banner from their bedroom window supporting gay rights, in which case I would support the owners right to say no.

You say a lawyer found a loophole (implying its a bad thing) well that's exactly what appeals are all about they nearly always turn on a specific point of law sometimes, you win sometimes you lose.

When the SC found against Boris you were all over here supporting them now you don't like what they did in the cake case.

We know why the cake bakers refused to sell the cake. We also know that, on a point of law, the Supreme Court, agreed. I don't argue with the Supreme Court. They must find on the law that is, and not as it might have been intended to be. Many were disappointed and wanted Parliament to ensure that discrimination of this type was included in the legislation. Johnson was also upset at the ruling against him. The difference being that it would have been extremely unlikely for him to get what he wanted through Parliament, whilst amending the discrimination laws ought to sail through.

It is discriminatory. Just not, at the moment, unlawfully discriminatory. Your analogy doesn't work. The guest house is owned by the religious objectors, just as the bakery is. Any banner put on display there is on their premises, and would indicate their support or at least compliance. The cake was not going on display. They had no responsibility for, or any interest in, it. They were just carrying out a task they had been contracted to do.

I wouldn't like to think we'd go the way of the US, with such an obsessive and polarised view of issues. Many of those very passionate about all but banning abortion there even in cases of rape, care not a jot post birth, or indeed about the Mother. It's easy to hold a 'principle' that costs you nothing. On the flipside, it's certainly possible to go too far in the other direction too and treat a serious matter like a nothing decision.

The only point of debate here should be the number of weeks at which an abortion can happen. I would tend to be conservative on that front, and base it on the science, as that largely cancels out the noise on both sides. That being the case, women should have the right to visit abortion clinics without feeling intimidated or harrassed for doing so. It's a personal decision within a family, not one that strangers you've never met get to decide.

Edited by MrWhyNot (01 Jan 2023 7.02pm)

I wouldn't like to think we'd go the way of the US, with such an obsessive and polarised view of issues. Many of those very passionate about all but banning abortion there even in cases of rape, care not a jot post birth, or indeed about the Mother. It's easy to hold a 'principle' that costs you nothing. On the flipside, it's certainly possible to go too far in the other direction too and treat a serious matter like a nothing decision.

The only point of debate here should be the number of weeks at which an abortion can happen. I would tend to be conservative on that front, and base it on the science, as that largely cancels out the noise on both sides. That being the case, women should have the right to visit abortion clinics without feeling intimidated or harrassed for doing so. It's a personal decision within a family, not one that strangers you've never met get to decide.

Edited by MrWhyNot (01 Jan 2023 7.02pm)