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 Stirlingsays  28 Sep 17 4.15pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
No. No they don't. That's the entire point of Black Lives Matter. I've seen video clips of Police killing people and then being sent to jail. So yes, the obvious ones do. What's obvious is obviously subjective.......obviously. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Sep 2017 4.15pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Sep 17 4.38pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I don't respect organizations that define by race/skin colour. But I would say that body cams on Police is a good idea and that I've seen clips of American police killing people where it looks like murder....mind you the obvious ones usually go to jail. I've also heard a lot of hyperbole over situation where the police acted reasonably....Well, within their system that is.....Everyday Police going around with guns isn't good....then again in a society with more guns than people I guess even if they didn't want them there isn't much practical choice.
In all fairness, BLM should have just called themselves 'Black Lives Also Matter' which is really the point they're making (it really should be poor lives matter as well - as the issue here isn't only with police killing black people in very questionable uses of force and getting away with it). In truth, the police should be very concerned and investigated every single time a person who isn't armed is shot and killed. The degree to which these cases get investigated, and the politics of the police and their influence on elections in the US, create an environment where enquiries are about trying to clear the officer, not establishing what happened.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Sep 17 4.50pm |
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Originally posted by dannyh
A maximisation of capital would be to release the tickets for even more than the original amount, not less Jamie as you well know. And the socialist wet dream would be exactly as I described the better off paying for the lazy workshy bastads that frequent Croydon High street after dark. Not really - Its like when they charge you 40 quid for a DVD boxed set when its just come out, but then flog them off for 20 quid later. Its about getting as much as you can. You sell at the highest price, to get maximise your profit, getting everyone who'll pay the higher price, then you flog off the remaining tickets cheaper because there is no demand for them at the higher price. Supply and Demand. Initially, demand may be high, so you go in a high price. Then you sell whats left for a much as you can get.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Ray in Houston  Houston 28 Sep 17 5.32pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I've seen video clips of Police killing people and then being sent to jail. So yes, the obvious ones do. What's obvious is obviously subjective.......obviously.
This, of course, is one of the extremely rare examples of a police officer suffering any penalty whatsoever for the killing of a person of colour. [Link]
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 28 Sep 17 6.02pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
In all fairness, BLM should have just called themselves 'Black Lives Also Matter' which is really the point they're making (it really should be poor lives matter as well - as the issue here isn't only with police killing black people in very questionable uses of force and getting away with it). In truth, the police should be very concerned and investigated every single time a person who isn't armed is shot and killed. The degree to which these cases get investigated, and the politics of the police and their influence on elections in the US, create an environment where enquiries are about trying to clear the officer, not establishing what happened.
As to investigations, it's worth remembering that this has been going on forever. Such killings have always been "legally justified" because the witnesses - the police - have confirmed this in their official reports. What's changed is that, for the few occasions where there is third party video (third party accounts previously having been dismissed as not as reliable as police accounts), a disturbingly large number of cases show the third party video to directly contradict the reports filed by the police involved. The killing of Walter Scott (as referenced by StirlingSays) is just one example. Officer Slager said that he had to shoot Scott because he went for his taser. Well there was a scuffle - not caught on camera - but the eyewitness video clearly shows Scott running away from the officer and being shot 8 times in the back. The officer then picked up what appeared to be a taser, walked over to Scott and dropped it next to him. He then handcuffed Scott who died at the scene. Slager also claimed to have performed CPR on Scott, which appears also to be a lie based on the video. So how many other cases of unjustified shooting by police officers have gone unnoticed (they still go mostly unpunished) prior to the advent of the smartphone and social media?
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 28 Sep 17 6.07pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
The killing of Walter Scott (as referenced by StirlingSays) is just one example. Officer Slager said that he had to shoot Scott because he went for his taser. Perhaps Officer Slager didn't enjoy reading Ivanhoe.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Stirlingsays 29 Sep 17 12.05am |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
This, of course, is one of the extremely rare examples of a police officer suffering any penalty whatsoever for the killing of a person of colour. [Link] Like I said, you get obvious examples that go to jail. Police officers also obviously get given the benefit of the doubt pretty much all the time. I agree with that as a common sense policy because they are representing the state and once you start down the road of not believing Police officers you get multiple problems. This isn't ideal though and it means corruption will happen. I'm not here saying Police murder doesn't happen. That's why body cams are vitally important. They are becoming the norm and turning them off should be illegal. Edited by Stirlingsays (29 Sep 2017 12.49am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 29 Sep 17 1.07am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Like I said, you get obvious examples that go to jail. Police officers also obviously get given the benefit of the doubt pretty much all the time. I agree with that as a common sense policy because they are representing the state and once you start down the road of not believing Police officers you get multiple problems. This isn't ideal though and it means corruption will happen. I'm not here saying Police murder doesn't happen. That's why body cams are vitally important. They are becoming the norm and turning them off should be illegal. Edited by Stirlingsays (29 Sep 2017 12.49am) Ray has just explained that there are police who are literally getting away with murder despite video evidence. Why will bodycams alter this?
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| Stirlingsays 29 Sep 17 2.07am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Ray has just explained that there are police who are literally getting away with murder despite video evidence. Why will bodycams alter this? I've just shown two examples of Police being put into jail after a black individual died. I've also explained why....and it's pretty obvious...why the state tends to believe...by default, its own enforcement arm.....shucks...really? Could you explain how an alternative system might work? Or would you rather just do boo hiss. You made a judgement about Police literally getting away with murder. I have no doubt that this happens, sometimes racially and sometimes not racially. Corruption is a factor of human nature, just like bad decisions and mistakes under pressure are. A court of law also makes judgements. Now if you....as I suspect...believe that the system is rigged.....then nothing is really going to satisfy you. I come across court judgements that I don't agree with....and sometimes can't quite believe all the time...they rarely involve race....So if you and Ray are attributing everything about courts down to racial bias I'd suggest you just aren't really being balanced about it. Police in obvious cases do get jailed and I believe body cams that don't get turned off provide vital evidence that potentially protects both the Police and citizen/subject.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 29 Sep 17 3.00am |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
For cultural and economic reasons the vastly disproportionate amount of crimes are being committed by black males. Crime types which obviously lead to a disproportionate number of hostile police encounters. Do you address this? I think Police do shoot black suspects more readily than white probably down to becoming cynical about the nature of the job and criminals. How much that plays into the real figures. I wouldn't know...there is a lot of smoke and mirrors and agendas flying about. There is a distinct lack of reasoning around the whole area. More than two-thirds of police officers are white and blacks commit about half of violent crimes, so it stands to reason most police shootings would involve a white cop and a black suspect. Another weakness of the argument is the reality that black cops have shot black suspects at essentially the same rate as white cops. Edited by Stirlingsays (29 Sep 2017 3.03am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 29 Sep 17 7.48am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
For cultural and economic reasons the vastly disproportionate amount of crimes are being committed by black males. Crime types which obviously lead to a disproportionate number of hostile police encounters. Do you address this? I think Police do shoot black suspects more readily than white probably down to becoming cynical about the nature of the job and criminals. How much that plays into the real figures. I wouldn't know...there is a lot of smoke and mirrors and agendas flying about. There is a distinct lack of reasoning around the whole area. More than two-thirds of police officers are white and blacks commit about half of violent crimes, so it stands to reason most police shootings would involve a white cop and a black suspect. Another weakness of the argument is the reality that black cops have shot black suspects at essentially the same rate as white cops. Edited by Stirlingsays (29 Sep 2017 3.03am) Are you saying the NFL players are making a fuss about nothing?
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 29 Sep 17 7.57am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Are you saying the NFL players are making a fuss about nothing? It's absurd political posturing to go along with the absurd charcoal on their faces, the absurd NFL uniforms and the general absurdity of NFL in general.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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