I post all of that and that's what you take from it. I didn't say they weren't there or that some weren't involved in violence. It's an issue of scale. A group of men carrying shields and helmets approaching others likely don't have good intentions. An unarmed woman just standing there getting punched in the face. I'm not really being won over by this.

'Throw the first punch'? Your telling of what you're seeing is hilarious. Simultaneously there was a man in a shield ramming into people. You cannot even tell from that clip who threw the first punch, and besides, there are men with shields and in helmets approaching a group of people. Why exactly? Come on. I suppose those carrying torches are just keeping themselves warm and the guy ramming a car into the crowd just wanted someone to clean his windscreen.

Mmmm...I think you are perhaps getting emotional because I'm showing you proof running counter to the narrative. The first punch is clearly from the activists blocking the path.

But as I've said, I agree the far right were quite prepared or wanting a punch up and so were antifa.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Would you want fascists marching through Wisbech? What about other Wisbechians?

I'm pretty sure many would say I ain't having that and turn out to stop them.

Hopefully some would turn out to stop communists marching through Wisbech.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

It would make sense at Berkeley that most of those causing trouble were on the left. I'm sure I could dig up some kind of alt-right presence too if I wanted but it was a minority.

The same here rally. The removal of this monument was something that impacted the type of person who turned up, primarily those on the right, all dressed to impress and tooled up. To be honest most right minded people regardless of their view do not think kindly of white supremacists coming to their town to cause havoc. We can inhabit a mental place where all of the locals are tucked up in bed if we like but I think both the moderate and even mainstream right view of what happened is appears to be more in touch with reality. How exactly is a local person supposed to leave their house and oppose this and be justified, when someone can just clap 'antifa' on the video and have you say that they've been bused in from across the country.

I can't be responsible for what people who hold strong alt right sympathies believe. Some things can't be explained away. There's footage of more than one of these extremists saying that they're glad this woman is dead, they want to kill more and so on. These people weren't playing.

Edited by wordup (17 Aug 2017 11.50am)