CONservative government incompetence.

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CONservative government incompetence.

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Teddy Eagle 09 Nov 22 2.02pm
Where is the estimated 27 trillion dollar cost of achieving net zero by 2050 coming from?
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Teddy Eagle

09 Nov 22 2.02pm

Where is the estimated 27 trillion dollar cost of achieving net zero by 2050 coming from?

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Stirlingsays 09 Nov 22 2.22pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC I always find this sort of chirp baffling What you're ignoring, either deliberately or otherwise, is the length of time that change took. No reasonable individual is saying that the planet doesn't have natural warming and cooling cycles. It's the speed of change which is the issue, and belching out trillions of tons of warming gases doesn't exactly help to slow things down. Besides, in some ways the science is irrelevant. Finding ways to produce energy and growth that don't involve irreversibly destroying nature and polluting anything and everything we can think of is a bit of a no brainer, really. Good luck with that. I think technology to reverse the effects is far more likely to succeed. Otherwise it's population sizes but that's rather a dark tunnel to drive into and full of undercurrents. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

09 Nov 22 2.22pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I always find this sort of chirp baffling

What you're ignoring, either deliberately or otherwise, is the length of time that change took. No reasonable individual is saying that the planet doesn't have natural warming and cooling cycles. It's the speed of change which is the issue, and belching out trillions of tons of warming gases doesn't exactly help to slow things down.

Besides, in some ways the science is irrelevant. Finding ways to produce energy and growth that don't involve irreversibly destroying nature and polluting anything and everything we can think of is a bit of a no brainer, really.

Good luck with that.

I think technology to reverse the effects is far more likely to succeed. Otherwise it's population sizes but that's rather a dark tunnel to drive into and full of undercurrents.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Nov 22 5.15pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays A bit easy for you to say isn't it. You have written many times on this site that you have run successful companies and done well for yourself and are a landlord of several houses and two house incomes.....now I don't criticise your success. (other than perhaps the marketing industry in general) and hard work deserves reward. However, what I will say is that it's a bit easy to talk of tighting belts when your personal belt has such copious space. Some might suggest that if you had to choose between eating and heating that your attitude towards these matters would be far less sympathetic.....and rightly so. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Nov 2022 2.27pm) I was going to reply to this in detail, but there is no need. What "Silvertop" posted a few minutes later says all the important things about why the need to deal with climate change transcends everything else, making them petty by comparison. If we don't deal with it then those that follow won't have any politics to argue over. There won't be any rich, or poor. Of course I am better placed than most. I acknowledge it and accept that people like me are going to have to shoulder the biggest burden. It won't though just be me. It will be everybody who isn't on the breadline. We are entering a steep recession and anyone who demands protection from it, and uses their industrial muscle to achieve it, are stealing bread from the mouths of others, many of whom are worse off than them and less organised. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (09 Nov 2022 5.16pm) For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Nov 22 5.15pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

A bit easy for you to say isn't it. You have written many times on this site that you have run successful companies and done well for yourself and are a landlord of several houses and two house incomes.....now I don't criticise your success. (other than perhaps the marketing industry in general) and hard work deserves reward.

However, what I will say is that it's a bit easy to talk of tighting belts when your personal belt has such copious space. Some might suggest that if you had to choose between eating and heating that your attitude towards these matters would be far less sympathetic.....and rightly so.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Nov 2022 2.27pm)

I was going to reply to this in detail, but there is no need. What "Silvertop" posted a few minutes later says all the important things about why the need to deal with climate change transcends everything else, making them petty by comparison.

If we don't deal with it then those that follow won't have any politics to argue over. There won't be any rich, or poor.

Of course I am better placed than most. I acknowledge it and accept that people like me are going to have to shoulder the biggest burden. It won't though just be me. It will be everybody who isn't on the breadline. We are entering a steep recession and anyone who demands protection from it, and uses their industrial muscle to achieve it, are stealing bread from the mouths of others, many of whom are worse off than them and less organised.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (09 Nov 2022 5.16pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 09 Nov 22 5.46pm
I'm not really going to get into the claims involving 'climate change' other than to state that it's factually correct that previous projections have been shown as hyperbolic by....to use Kamala Harris's enjoyable phrase, 'the passage of time'. What consequences were there for these inaccuracies? None.....What benefits were there to the people making them?....funding and topic expansion. However, let's accept the premises that everything being claimed is true and accurate and above board. There is no joined up thinking. It's clear that despite all the 'holier than thou' language and hand wringing by the numerous jet setting politicians any commitment to action on climate change is little more than virtue signalling language.....which, considering the realistic impact, paradoxically some might thank god for. Sure, they set themselves targets and ask their own people to limit themselves but that's like telling the fat boy to put down his cake. The reality is that the well to do aren't going to swap their holidays for home and instead they will be expecting the plebs to make the sacrifice. The western elites have decided to fight a cold war and in so doing created an economic and confrontational division between two economic blocks.....creating a multipolar world. Now, sorry and all that, but that doesn't sound to me like a serious commitment to changing the climate. Asking people in the west to wear a hair shirt while the other half burn coal and ignore your targets makes a parody of the whole effort. To me it kind of reveals the reality of priorities and the confused motivations....or deliberate lies that lie at the heart of these situations. If you ask me, 'climate change' comes some way down the list. So personally, I'm skeptical as to the priorities and realism of much of what is said in this area. You can be the hatchling who supports everything an establishment neo/social liberal figure says. For me, I'll listen to words and then observe actions. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Nov 2022 5.52pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

09 Nov 22 5.46pm

I'm not really going to get into the claims involving 'climate change' other than to state that it's factually correct that previous projections have been shown as hyperbolic by....to use Kamala Harris's enjoyable phrase, 'the passage of time'.

What consequences were there for these inaccuracies? None.....What benefits were there to the people making them?....funding and topic expansion.

However, let's accept the premises that everything being claimed is true and accurate and above board.

There is no joined up thinking.

It's clear that despite all the 'holier than thou' language and hand wringing by the numerous jet setting politicians any commitment to action on climate change is little more than virtue signalling language.....which, considering the realistic impact, paradoxically some might thank god for.

Sure, they set themselves targets and ask their own people to limit themselves but that's like telling the fat boy to put down his cake. The reality is that the well to do aren't going to swap their holidays for home and instead they will be expecting the plebs to make the sacrifice.

The western elites have decided to fight a cold war and in so doing created an economic and confrontational division between two economic blocks.....creating a multipolar world.

Now, sorry and all that, but that doesn't sound to me like a serious commitment to changing the climate. Asking people in the west to wear a hair shirt while the other half burn coal and ignore your targets makes a parody of the whole effort.

To me it kind of reveals the reality of priorities and the confused motivations....or deliberate lies that lie at the heart of these situations. If you ask me, 'climate change' comes some way down the list.

So personally, I'm skeptical as to the priorities and realism of much of what is said in this area. You can be the hatchling who supports everything an establishment neo/social liberal figure says. For me, I'll listen to words and then observe actions.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Nov 2022 5.52pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 09 Nov 22 7.29pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Good luck with that. I think technology to reverse the effects is far more likely to succeed. Otherwise it's population sizes but that's rather a dark tunnel to drive into and full of undercurrents. Sort of. There’s plenty that should be done even with population numbers as they are. Besides, the whole population bomb thing has well and truly died a death. Overblown hysteria. Personally I think nuclear mixed with renewables, plus the commercialisation of lab grown / printed food will be the future, and take a lot of pressure off. Although I still think plastics are probably the big one. Have a feeling (completely unsubstantiated, but there are some theories) that micro plastics will become a big issue by affecting human fertility. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 09 Nov 22 7.29pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Good luck with that.

I think technology to reverse the effects is far more likely to succeed. Otherwise it's population sizes but that's rather a dark tunnel to drive into and full of undercurrents.

Sort of. There’s plenty that should be done even with population numbers as they are.

Besides, the whole population bomb thing has well and truly died a death. Overblown hysteria. Personally I think nuclear mixed with renewables, plus the commercialisation of lab grown / printed food will be the future, and take a lot of pressure off.

Although I still think plastics are probably the big one. Have a feeling (completely unsubstantiated, but there are some theories) that micro plastics will become a big issue by affecting human fertility.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Stirlingsays 09 Nov 22 9.13pm
I was directly told on this site that covid also caused Myocarditis....directly told that this was true. I was also told that on here and on an NHS website that covid vaccines lowered transmission, yet that again wasn't true. Why is this being revealed now and why didn't any of the esteemed medical organisations investigate this and reveal that these claims hadn't been proven and that professional people were going on faith. I wasn't that trustful at the beginning....thank goodness, but now that's doubled. [Tweet Link] As for excess deaths. [Link] Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Nov 2022 9.32pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

09 Nov 22 9.13pm

I was directly told on this site that covid also caused Myocarditis....directly told that this was true.

I was also told that on here and on an NHS website that covid vaccines lowered transmission, yet that again wasn't true.

Why is this being revealed now and why didn't any of the esteemed medical organisations investigate this and reveal that these claims hadn't been proven and that professional people were going on faith.

I wasn't that trustful at the beginning....thank goodness, but now that's doubled.

[Tweet Link]

As for excess deaths.

[Link]

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Nov 2022 9.32pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Teddy Eagle 09 Nov 22 10.02pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Where is the estimated 27 trillion dollar cost of achieving net zero by 2050 coming from? No comment? Everyone thinks this is a reasonable amount to pay? OK, enjoy the tax rises.
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Teddy Eagle

09 Nov 22 10.02pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Where is the estimated 27 trillion dollar cost of achieving net zero by 2050 coming from?

No comment? Everyone thinks this is a reasonable amount to pay? OK, enjoy the tax rises.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 09 Nov 22 10.10pm
Originally posted by silvertop Ah, a climate change denier. The changes you refer to occurred over very long geological periods. The current changes are unprecedented in their speed. A few hundred years is half a blink in geological terms. Previous climate changes of the extent currently experienced triggered mass extinctions; but over eons. The current crisis will cause widespread devastation before the end of this century. We will be dead. My kids will be dead. But their kids will not. But it is the transition to that state that will be (and is being) felt by us all. The potential rise in sea level of, say, a meter will flood huge, fertile areas of much of the planet, including the Benelux nations from whom we get a great deal of our fresh produce, and the Ganges and Niger deltas. In the latter resides and depend for their food many, many millions of people. They will die or migrate. Many will seek a better life in the West. To which Western nation do you think Nigerians and Bangladeshis have the closest connection? Accordingly, this is not some theory of the earth altering orbit trajectory and colliding with the sun in 4 billion years or polar reversal or Yellowstone erupting. This is effectively imminent and, at some date not that far away and quite possibly in our lifetime, irreversible. I accept the time scales are different, my point was more that climate change happens with or without human intervention. As regards the current situation I agree the planet needs tho change the carbon emissions, however, the UK's small contribution to the problem means that it has to be a global effort and the UK wearing a climate hair shirt will not particularly help. Perhaps it's Darwin at work. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 09 Nov 22 10.10pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Ah, a climate change denier.

The changes you refer to occurred over very long geological periods.

The current changes are unprecedented in their speed. A few hundred years is half a blink in geological terms.

Previous climate changes of the extent currently experienced triggered mass extinctions; but over eons. The current crisis will cause widespread devastation before the end of this century.

We will be dead. My kids will be dead. But their kids will not. But it is the transition to that state that will be (and is being) felt by us all. The potential rise in sea level of, say, a meter will flood huge, fertile areas of much of the planet, including the Benelux nations from whom we get a great deal of our fresh produce, and the Ganges and Niger deltas. In the latter resides and depend for their food many, many millions of people. They will die or migrate. Many will seek a better life in the West. To which Western nation do you think Nigerians and Bangladeshis have the closest connection?

Accordingly, this is not some theory of the earth altering orbit trajectory and colliding with the sun in 4 billion years or polar reversal or Yellowstone erupting. This is effectively imminent and, at some date not that far away and quite possibly in our lifetime, irreversible.

I accept the time scales are different, my point was more that climate change happens with or without human intervention.

As regards the current situation I agree the planet needs tho change the carbon emissions, however, the UK's small contribution to the problem means that it has to be a global effort and the UK wearing a climate hair shirt will not particularly help.

Perhaps it's Darwin at work.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Stirlingsays 09 Nov 22 10.18pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Sort of. There’s plenty that should be done even with population numbers as they are. Besides, the whole population bomb thing has well and truly died a death. Overblown hysteria. Personally I think nuclear mixed with renewables, plus the commercialisation of lab grown / printed food will be the future, and take a lot of pressure off. Although I still think plastics are probably the big one. Have a feeling (completely unsubstantiated, but there are some theories) that micro plastics will become a big issue by affecting human fertility. I'm with you on nuclear. From looking into it I just don't think that renewables are there....not on the large scale. People don't want to acknowledge the problems that come with renewables. I don't think the technology is there yet.....In terms of mass energy output I view them as 'of the future'.....I think it was a mistake to fast track on renewables.....Germany are certainly finding that out at the moment. I also think you might be onto something about the plastics....but that's not the only thing....the drop in testosterone levels as well hasn't been properly explained and various toxics could be involved there. In terms of population sizes I most definitely think that's a very important aspect of the future. I'm nowhere near as trusting of the competency of our elites or indeed their loyalties as some of us are. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

09 Nov 22 10.18pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Sort of. There’s plenty that should be done even with population numbers as they are.

I'm with you on nuclear.

From looking into it I just don't think that renewables are there....not on the large scale. People don't want to acknowledge the problems that come with renewables. I don't think the technology is there yet.....In terms of mass energy output I view them as 'of the future'.....I think it was a mistake to fast track on renewables.....Germany are certainly finding that out at the moment.

I also think you might be onto something about the plastics....but that's not the only thing....the drop in testosterone levels as well hasn't been properly explained and various toxics could be involved there.

In terms of population sizes I most definitely think that's a very important aspect of the future. I'm nowhere near as trusting of the competency of our elites or indeed their loyalties as some of us are.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 10 Nov 22 1.17am
Godfrey Bloom who was a financial economist in his working life here explains inflation, why it's happening amid the economic situation and where we are heading. [Link] 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 Nov 22 1.17am

Godfrey Bloom who was a financial economist in his working life here explains inflation, why it's happening amid the economic situation and where we are heading.

[Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Nov 22 7.46am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle No comment? Everyone thinks this is a reasonable amount to pay? OK, enjoy the tax rises. No comment from anyone here could be of any use. No-one here knows, and I doubt anyone, anywhere really knows how much it will "cost", or what changes have to happen to achieve it. It isn't though the question. When the alternative is clearly an even greater cost then you have no choice other than to change direction. When faced with two bad choices, you must pick the least bad, and then try to make that better. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 10 Nov 22 7.46am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

No comment? Everyone thinks this is a reasonable amount to pay? OK, enjoy the tax rises.

No comment from anyone here could be of any use. No-one here knows, and I doubt anyone, anywhere really knows how much it will "cost", or what changes have to happen to achieve it.

It isn't though the question. When the alternative is clearly an even greater cost then you have no choice other than to change direction. When faced with two bad choices, you must pick the least bad, and then try to make that better.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Teddy Eagle 10 Nov 22 8.23am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle No comment from anyone here could be of any use. No-one here knows, and I doubt anyone, anywhere really knows how much it will "cost", or what changes have to happen to achieve it. It isn't though the question. When the alternative is clearly an even greater cost then you have no choice other than to change direction. When faced with two bad choices, you must pick the least bad, and then try to make that better. Still doesn't answer where this money is coming from.
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Teddy Eagle

10 Nov 22 8.23am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

No comment from anyone here could be of any use. No-one here knows, and I doubt anyone, anywhere really knows how much it will "cost", or what changes have to happen to achieve it.

Still doesn't answer where this money is coming from.

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