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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 28 Jun 16 5.43pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Yes, he has. Was a FOREX trader a while back. Though if you class that as a 'real job' is another matter.

I think he was a broker. Not much different to working in insurance claims, telemarketing, telesales. Answering the phone, quoting a price, giving advice if you've passed your SFA exams. They're all jobs like a lot of London does.

If he was a 'trader' he was carrying out trades for clients rather than a fund of institution so same applies.

 


COYP

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Part Time James Flag 28 Jun 16 5.45pm Send a Private Message to Part Time James Add Part Time James as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

What has "failed miserably?"

The country was asked if they want to stay in the EU.

14.4 million people voted no, they wanted to leave.

Since then, a load of inexperienced market makers over reacted, so the value of the pound fell and the FTSE fell.

Given the weekend to sober up and grow some balls, the value of the pound is rising and the FTSE is back where it was Thursday at close of business.

Cameron has resigned. A new leader and team of Ministers will deal with our withdrawal from the EU and negotiate new deals with the rest of the world if the EU play hardball.

I repeat.... what has "failed miserably?"

Agree. These are graphs of the FTSE and £ vs $ over a more extended period than just a few days. Was the referendum result responsible for the slumps that put both of these so low before the referendum even took place?

image002.png Attachment: image002.png (38.72Kb)

 




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Part Time James Flag 28 Jun 16 5.48pm Send a Private Message to Part Time James Add Part Time James as a friend

And...

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Mstrobez Flag 28 Jun 16 5.53pm Send a Private Message to Mstrobez Add Mstrobez as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

What has "failed miserably?"

The country was asked if they want to stay in the EU.

14.4 million people voted no, they wanted to leave.

Since then, a load of inexperienced market makers over reacted, so the value of the pound fell and the FTSE fell.

Given the weekend to sober up and grow some balls, the value of the pound is rising and the FTSE is back where it was Thursday at close of business.

Cameron has resigned. A new leader and team of Ministers will deal with our withdrawal from the EU and negotiate new deals with the rest of the world if the EU play hardball.

I repeat.... what has "failed miserably?"

Whether people like it or not a large amount of people who voted leave voted on the basis of cutting down immigration. It was at the forefront of the campaign, some will argue that wasn't their motivation for the vote but they cannot deny it was a major selling point.

The leave campaign was painted as a picture that simply doesn't exist. "We'll leave the EU, control our borders, regain our sovereignty and because we're so special and our economy is so great, they'd be dumb to not still let us trade as before".

I think in the recent days it's already become evidence based on facts that this isn't the case. The prime example is the fact that the EU are saying that no negotiations will take place until article 50 is triggered - if we weren't already in a ridiculous negotiating position with no plan, triggering article 50 with not even a hint of a negotiation makes us even weaker. They can play hard ball, they can do whatever they want.

Even if we were to have negotiations prior to triggering article 50 - we really are not as special as we think we are! People are delusional to think that just because we export in high numbers, that the EU are just gonna let us have our cake and eat it - they'd basically be digging there own grave. So the plan of "controlling our borders" and also "still having free access to the single market" has already failed miserably because I cannot see any possible outcome where we have both. It won't happen. People keep mentioning the Norway/Switzerland without understanding the fact that they both STILL have free movement and also STILL pay into the EU. We go down the same route as them and again, everything leave said in there campaign has failed.

I do understand the thinking behind leave, I genuinely do. But if we were gonna be taken seriously, it should've been years down the line where a real leader rose up and had a strong contingency and exit plan after the EU - we simply do not have one.

Some people are suggesting the EUs bark is worse than its bite but there negotiating stance is in an incredibly stronger position than ours, that's a fact.

Leaves whole campaign was on the basis of "controlling our borders" and still trading as we did before with the EU - this has failed miserably because it simply will not happen as they said it would

BTW if you read my original post the "failed miserably" part was actually in relation to David Cameron promising a referendum partly to get voted in and then losing it. Cheers for taking the post out of context and even confusing me for a second.

Edited by Mstrobez (28 Jun 2016 6.06pm)

 


We're the Arthur over ere!

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 28 Jun 16 5.55pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Hi there....

Well I didn't enjoy my walk.... it started raining and I found a young dead squirrel in the road, poor thing. Took it to the woods and gave him a little send off bless him.

I notice you said 'rarely' which gives me hope of seeing her lovely norks again in GoT.

Right I don't believe you do have an agenda and are genuine.

1. Controlled Immigration. As members of the EU we cannot control numbers or quality. We have to admit anyone from an EU country who wants to come here.
2. Sovereignty. We have to abide by the laws of the EU regardless of whether we agree with them. Leaving the EU leaves us free to pass our own laws as and when we see fit.
3. Membership Fees. The Gross cost of being a member is £350 Million per week. Currently we get rebates and refunds which nets the cost to us per year of £8 Billion. Lost forever every year and those rebates/refunds are not guaranteed in the future. That money can be reinvested into the NHS or some other good cause that we decide rather than the EU.
4. Further expansion of EU. More countries are being invited to join. That means potentially more immigrants. If Turkey joins that will mean an influx of more Muslims and the potential for possible terrorists to be amongst them.
5. Limited space in UK. We simply cannot accept any more mass immigration. Our population has grown from 50M to 65M in the last 50 years, but the last decade has seen the fastest growth.
6. Housing & Infrastructure. The level of population growth in point 5 above has meant we have a housing shortage. Not only that though - the associated infrastructure of schools, GP practices, hospitals, roads etc is already unable to cope. Add another 10 million people and it will collapse.
7. The EU is a failed experiment doomed to failure. Greece are on the brink of bankruptcy and others like Italy are heading for fiscal failure too. That means us being asked to pay more to bail them out.

You asked for 5, I gave you 7.

Over to Remain to give their 5 bullet points.

He'll tell you like he did me that 1,4,5,6 are immigration. What I said to him was that politics is about the population. Mass immigration is adding to the population. Of course it is going to be an issue.

Actually 7 and the hardship of Mediterranean countries and possible bankruptcy of Greece or others could lead to more immigration, especially high calibre graduates. Serves the young right if there were high calibre south Europeans on their way to snap up all the best post-grad office professional vacancies. I'd laugh out loud right at them if they complain.

What some have said, and I can't remember if fledgling has, is in what way has the EU harmed your life or will leaving affect your life. They will use
nno. 2, sovereignty and possibly the EU membership fees.

 


COYP

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 28 Jun 16 6.02pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Part Time James

Agree. These are graphs of the FTSE and £ vs $ over a more extended period than just a few days. Was the referendum result responsible for the slumps that put both of these so low before the referendum even took place?

The pound/euro is at 2013 levels.

The pound/dollar is very low. No denying that. Same as it was last financial crisis and post 9/11. I can't remember but the US interest rated were artificially low and it was a very uncertain period for a while.

The FTSE is in the middle of the range it's been in the last 12 months.


The German Dax and French CAC suffered more last week but euro/dollar hasn't suffered like the pound/dollar.

 


COYP

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Hoof Hearted 28 Jun 16 6.05pm

Originally posted by Mstrobez

Whether people like it or not a large amount of people who voted leave voted on the basis of cutting down immigration. It was at the forefront of the campaign, some will argue that wasn't their motivation for the vote but they cannot deny it was a major selling point.

The leave campaign was painted as a picture that simply doesn't exist. "We'll leave the EU, control our borders, regain our sovereignty and because we're so special and our economy is so great, they'd be dumb to not still let us trade as before".

I think in the recent days it's already become evidence based on facts that this isn't the case. The prime example is the fact that the EU are saying that no negotiations will take place until article 50 is triggered - if we weren't already in a ridiculous negotiating position with no plan, triggering article 50 with not even a hint of a negotiation makes us even weaker. They can play hard ball, they can do whatever they want.

Even if we were to have negotiations prior to triggering article 50 - we really are not as special as we think we are! People are delusional to think that just because we export in high numbers, that the EU are just gonna let us have our cake and eat it - they'd basically be digging there own grave. So the plan of "controlling our borders" and also "still having free access to the single market" has already failed miserably because I cannot see any possible outcome where we have both. It won't happen. People keep mentioning the Norway/Switzerland without understanding the fact that they both STILL have free movement and also STILL pay into the EU. We go down the same route as them and again, everything leave said in there campaign has failed.

I do understand the thinking behind leave, I genuinely do. But if we were gonna be taken seriously, it should've been years down the line where a real leader rose up and had a strong contingency and exit plan after the EU - we simply do not have one.

Some people are suggesting the EUs bark is worse than its bite but there negotiating stance is in an incredibly stronger position than ours, that's a fact.

Leaves whole campaign was on the basis of "controlling our borders" and still trading as we did before with the EU - this has failed miserably because it simply will not happen as they said it would.

That is a very long post that says very little.

The only para worth commenting on is highlighted in red.

The EU now know we are not bluffing. In fact I'll bet privately they are sh1tting themselves because our exit will hasten the demise of the failed experiment. Other countries will follow.

Triggering article 50 is entirely at our discretion. The EU cannot force us to start proceedings. We'll issue it when we're good and ready.

As for predicting our negotiation strategy in your last para - you are guessing, and guessing wrong.

 

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Mstrobez Flag 28 Jun 16 6.10pm Send a Private Message to Mstrobez Add Mstrobez as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

That is a very long post that says very little.

The only para worth commenting on is highlighted in red.

The EU now know we are not bluffing. In fact I'll bet privately they are sh1tting themselves because our exit will hasten the demise of the failed experiment. Other countries will follow.

Triggering article 50 is entirely at our discretion. The EU cannot force us to start proceedings. We'll issue it when we're good and ready.

As for predicting our negotiation strategy in your last para - you are guessing, and guessing wrong.

The fact that there is a risk that other countries will follow is the exact reason we are in a poor negotiating position. The countries panicking, rightly or wrongly and the EU will know this. They simply cannot afford to make a deal that will even give us the possibility of success in the short term, as you rightly pointed out they will be digging their own grave.

I think people are failing to realise that any negotiations will have to be agree unanimously by 27 officials. You really think we can deliver on leaves promises? Seriously?

 


We're the Arthur over ere!

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Hoof Hearted 28 Jun 16 6.10pm

Originally posted by Stuk

17,410,742 hoof.

Sorry my Parkinsons makes me prone to the odd typo.

Thanks for correcting me Stuk.

 

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Hoof Hearted 28 Jun 16 6.15pm

Originally posted by Mstrobez

The fact that there is a risk that other countries will follow is the exact reason we are in a poor negotiating position. The countries panicking, rightly or wrongly and the EU will know this. They simply cannot afford to make a deal that will even give us the possibility of success in the short term, as you rightly pointed out they will be digging their own grave.

I think people are failing to realise that any negotiations will have to be agree unanimously by 27 officials. You really think we can deliver on leaves promises? Seriously?

All the more reason not to rush in and accept what is offered.

Cameron was obviously not a good poker player and got shafted pre Referendum.

I am confident we can get a deal. If not we go looking for other markets.

The world is our Oyster card.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 28 Jun 16 6.17pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Hi there....

Well I didn't enjoy my walk.... it started raining and I found a young dead squirrel in the road, poor thing. Took it to the woods and gave him a little send off bless him.

I notice you said 'rarely' which gives me hope of seeing her lovely norks again in GoT.

Right I don't believe you do have an agenda and are genuine.

1. Controlled Immigration. As members of the EU we cannot control numbers or quality. We have to admit anyone from an EU country who wants to come here.
2. Sovereignty. We have to abide by the laws of the EU regardless of whether we agree with them. Leaving the EU leaves us free to pass our own laws as and when we see fit.
3. Membership Fees. The Gross cost of being a member is £350 Million per week. Currently we get rebates and refunds which nets the cost to us per year of £8 Billion. Lost forever every year and those rebates/refunds are not guaranteed in the future. That money can be reinvested into the NHS or some other good cause that we decide rather than the EU.
4. Further expansion of EU. More countries are being invited to join. That means potentially more immigrants. If Turkey joins that will mean an influx of more Muslims and the potential for possible terrorists to be amongst them.
5. Limited space in UK. We simply cannot accept any more mass immigration. Our population has grown from 50M to 65M in the last 50 years, but the last decade has seen the fastest growth.
6. Housing & Infrastructure. The level of population growth in point 5 above has meant we have a housing shortage. Not only that though - the associated infrastructure of schools, GP practices, hospitals, roads etc is already unable to cope. Add another 10 million people and it will collapse.
7. The EU is a failed experiment doomed to failure. Greece are on the brink of bankruptcy and others like Italy are heading for fiscal failure too. That means us being asked to pay more to bail them out.

You asked for 5, I gave you 7.

Over to Remain to give their 5 bullet points.


Whilst I agree with some of point six, you have to factor in lack of investment in infrastructure which cannot be dismissed out of hand. You've also got to factor in second homes or those that lie empty for much of the time.
School building programmes were scrapped within weeks of the coalition government taking power despite being told there would be a shortfall of places on the horizon (even without factoring in higher immigration)

Edit: Where are you getting the 10 million figure from?

Edited by nickgusset (28 Jun 2016 7.48pm)

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 28 Jun 16 6.18pm

Double post.

Edited by nickgusset (28 Jun 2016 6.20pm)

 

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