The west had been negotiating with Putin since the nineties.

Aren't you aware that the west not only negotiates with 'dictators' but that large amounts of western companies and infrastructure are owned by them....there are the Saudis, who own considerably amounts of finance in London and even some well known football clubs. And of course there is China.

So I find your point about dictators a bit....well, non reflective of what actually happens.

As an aside, if your 'socialist' comment refers to me I think many people on the forum would find that somewhat....how shall we say, far from the reality.

To say that genocide is going on in the Ukraine is pure nonsense.

I've seen this modern interpretation of 'genocide' before and sorry, it's not for me.....It's like the use of the word 'assault' to include things that plainly aren't what people actually think when hearing the word.

Sure, however they aren't an article five country. If you are going to partake in wars outside of alliances....what is the point of being in Nato, you might as well just say....whatever the elites want at the time.

While I don't agree with Nato expansion along these confrontational lines most people including Russia recognise that both Sweden and Finland have been western countries for many decades.....long since before Nato existed.

There are no significant pro Russian populations in those countries.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jul 2022 8.55am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Yep, and that's not what is happening.

There will be a Ukraine after this war....the idea that Russia is going to attempt to reach the Polish border isn't reality.

That would be WW3.

If they tried to hold areas of the Ukraine that didn't have significant areas of pro Russian support they would be making a rod for their own back.....which is why I think they will negotiate back to the Donbas regardless of gains made after that.....but what happens to Odessa I couldn't say.

All just my opinion of course and I respect your view.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jul 2022 9.05am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Good luck with that

A German journalist living in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region has been criminally charged by the German government for interviewing Ukrainian citizens and reporting her findings.

Spreading more of that 'Russian propaganda' I guess.

If she was raping children she'd still have a bank account.

[Link]

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jul 2022 12.00pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

It seem very extreme. It appears they are happy to appease Putin to get oil but individuals they can bully.

Everybody deserves a voice and the right to express a view. Otherwise how can people see the absurdity of other's views. I don't strictly mean this at the journo but in general.

She does