I've given you answers, which you've acknowledged, but then you go on about there weren't any answers in the previous 300 pages, which there were (peoples' reasons for voting leave).

This is similar to the girl I spoke to the other day who almost put her hands over her ears and went la la la la when I explained supply and demand for housing. All she kept saying was house prices would fall. i.e - she's just picking headlines and running with them, whether or not they've been disproved. Another one of her favourites was 3 million jobs will be lost. It's actually 'linked directly to the EU', not ALL LOST. Another she liked was 'nobody will want to trade with us.' No, of course they won't. Germany can afford to lose 20% of car sales and France put at risk it's food and drink businesses. Young people today. Pffft.

COYP

With respect Rudi, your opinion isn't representative of everyone and like I've said more than once now there are some good points in the previous 300 pages but they're in the minority and by the same posters.

If we cut to the chase of your initial response it all hinges on immigration. You say it's not just about numbers of immigrants but then reference it continually.

It's not just about numbers of immigrants and housing and suppressed wages. It's also about the EU being pro big business, making fat cats and shareholders richer off imported cheap labour and costing smaller businesses for that reason and because they cannot export around the world when facing tariffs of up to 50% in some cases.There is also the changing face of our communities for some but that's a concern for only some communities, for now. Living wage and the cheap labour pull in 2020. Immigrants living 4 to a room to make it worthwhile and not worthwhile for our low paid who need to live properly on these wages. We need to cover welfare with our own citizens at some point rather than importing cheap labour, but then people won't be having 2 or more kids because they cannot get or afford housing for a 2 child family.God I could go on and on and so could our problems. You can't fix a country in one week or year. It'll take some time but we should try, and try very very hard. Add the wages being taken back to East European countries. Some of them are very open about that is their intention. I don't blame them, good luck to them. But it doesn't help our economy, if you know economics. It is never mentioned, and wasn't in the debates, because it'll be seen as xenophobic, or racist, which is technically inaccurate anyway. Only taxes paid vs benefits claimed.

You come across as very condescending. I can fully appreciate the complexities of the argument. I'm not deliberately trying to wind you up or argue. I was originally looking for more than one reason as to why it's a good thing we're out and you gave some good reasons but they're all based around the associated problems of mass immigration.

If you go back to my original post you'll see I asked the same question of the remain camp.

I've got no agenda.

Nothing wrong with having some pretentions. I quite like wine and fine dinning / Sushi, although wine tasting is for c**ts, wine drinking is where its at. Its like anything, I guess, if your into something, then you take an interest in it. That said, people who think it makes the better because they like Opera... c**ts.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Farage asks for grown up negotiations and then goes on to insult everyone in the same breath. He shouldn't be anywhere near any discussions

Each day we wait to invoke article 50, the more likely it is that Brexit will be kicked into the long grass. We'll be feeling the pinch before the new tory leader takes charge and they'll no doubt have their own timetable and ideas about how to go forward. Boris for instance has already firmly backtracked on previous freedom of movement promises.

Should we leave the EU, it's still overwhelmingly likely that we will join EEA and be bound by freedom of movement. We've now seen numerous prominent leave campaigners play down how important to is to cut immigration post brexit. Only Nigel Farage has stuck to his guns really.

The most likely outcome as I see it is that we'll be allowed by EU nations to join EEA and we'll get the same deal as Norway. People won't be happy about it, but that's true of any solution. If anyone imagines that we'll have control over our borders in 2 or 3 years I think they'll end up being very disappointed. It's not likely to be something we'll gain during negotiations and in truth the EU was always someone for our politicians to blame for immigration, rather than something they personally had a problem with. As part of EEA we'll at least be able to form bespoke trade agreements with non EU nations that EU countries can't. That will be our up side.

Edited by blackpalacefan (28 Jun 2016 3.03pm)