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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Jun 24 9.05pm | |
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The only similarity between Hitler’s views on Jews and Communists would seem to be he regarded them both as inferior. Of course antisemitism existed long before Hitler but no one else took their hatred to the extremes of the Nazis. That was caused by something more than antisemitism. That the Nazis killed many more Slavs is undoubtedly true but those were during a war. Not of your own people and civilians in countries you had occupied in the most heinous of ways. Mass murder on an industrial scale cannot be compared to deaths in wartime, even if many were deliberately done or collateral damage.
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syd snot munich 24 Jun 24 9.10pm | |
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I was born in Sydenham to an English father and Northern Irish mother therefore I am mixed race innit.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Jun 24 9.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I think it's you that needs clarification. Hitler has nothing to do with the validity of genetic heritage. What Hitler thought about anything has no bearing on this subject, except in your mind. Hitler certainly had nothing to do with validating genetic heritage. Nor anything directly to do with the subject of this thread. On that we can agree. I didn’t though ever suggest anything different. It’s merely an example of where attitudes can lead. Lest we forget.
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Stirlingsays 24 Jun 24 9.54pm | |
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Originally posted by syd snot
I was born in Sydenham to an English father and Northern Irish mother therefore I am mixed race innit. No, just mixed up.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 24 Jun 24 10.05pm | |
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'Mass murder on an industrial scale cannot be compared to deaths in wartime' Yes it can....in fact I find the distinction rather arbitrary. Rather like the distinction between dying of friendly fire or enemy fire.....the end result is the same, you're dead. As for Hitler viewing communists as inferior.....I tend to get the impression that this poster hasn't actually read much on the topic of Hitler's motivations. Hitler certainly had it in for the Jews, but it wasn't exclusive to them....Stalin also had it in for Ukrainians a few years before him...Still, that was kind of ignored. Hitler thought the spread of communism in Europe was existential to Germany and that fascist Germany and communist Russia couldn't co-exist without one destroying the other.....He thought that Germany wouldn't survive unless it expanded into the east.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 24 Jun 24 10.24pm | |
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Hitler believed in social Darwinism from reading during his prison term in the 20s.....A lot of people did at the time. Social Darwinism started in England and was a philosophical movement based from Darwin's evolution theory....based upon designing society along evolution's 'survival of the fittest' conclusions Many high level thinkers took it on...Herbert Spencer, Galton, George Bernard Shaw. Germany under Hitler carried out terminations of those they considered unfit. This was of course abhorrent. However, I note the hypocrisy of those that support the abortion of healthy human infants yet are appalled by the ending of life for the disabled and incapable. Quite selective in my view.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Jun 24 11.27pm | |
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Whilst no one could possibly argue that death from any cause still results in death, when assessing the ethics or morality of the perpetrators there is a difference between acts of war and the mass murder of civilians. Only the wilfully stubborn would try to argue otherwise. As to the idea that Hitler’s hatred of communism was based on the fear that Germany couldn’t survive unless it destroyed the Soviets and wasn’t similar to his hatred of the Jews. Other opinions exist:- We have one poster here who tries to link immigration to every possible subject. Now we witness another linking a pet obsession, this one on anti-abortion, to this thread. Which is about who is English! And then pile nonsense on top of diversion by describing unviable foetuses as “health human infants”! I’ve read some preposterous claims from the anti-abortonists in the past but that one will take some beating.
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Stirlingsays 25 Jun 24 12.44am | |
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No, it's a fair point to talk about the ethical difference between professional armies and civilians....that wasn't what I was getting at. I was referring to the individual themselves. Also the point should be made that the vast majority of those in the WW2 weren't professionals and were conscripted and given little choice.....Disgrace and prison time or join up. Also the point can be made that both allies and axis made little distinction between soldier and civilian. For example, we and the Americans destroyed German cities long after the defeat of Germany was assured.....Dresden had little military utility and we essentially took out around thirty thousand civilians over a few days. Then of course the obvious elephant in the room of the Americans nuking Japan, causing the death of two hundred thousand civilians. Generations of unborn children suffering defects....still happens to this day. People who diminish what nuclear radiation does really need to look back at those explosions.....bombs that were far far less powerful than today. As Churchill said himself...well to paraphrase him, the victors write the history and he's going to write it and ensure that they come out well. I remember my grandfather telling me that, as they went through from Italy, some units wouldn't take prisoners and just shot the surrendered so that they didn't have to share provisions and process them.....Some of them doing it out of war hatred. But I tend to think we were better than most. Hitler and Stalin were geocidal and I agree that.....in the comparison of atrocities in WW2 we are probably the least culpable....but there were no good guys. As for the abortion point and this 'unviable' description....I'll link to something the comedian Bill Burr said on it.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 25 Jun 24 8.51am | |
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There are also some fair points being made about soldiers being conscripts and the deliberate targeting of civilian areas but nonetheless these were all done during war time. The thinking behind the use of nuclear bombs in Japan allegedly being that by stopping the war the overall losses would be lessened. No one likes abortion. So much better to avoid getting pregnant than to terminate it. However, sometimes it becomes the least worse option. Accurate language matters. A caterpillar is not a butterfly, although it could, in time and with good fortune, become one. A foetus is not a healthy human infant. (Nor is flour and water a cake. It needs time and heat for that transition to occur.) Deciding at which point on the pathway from fertilised egg to a sentient human being viability occurs is a job for expert analysis. Not emotional responses. Setting that point as the one where abortion is always the worst option is logical.
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Hrolf The Ganger 25 Jun 24 9.20am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Hitler certainly had nothing to do with validating genetic heritage. Nor anything directly to do with the subject of this thread. On that we can agree. I didn’t though ever suggest anything different. It’s merely an example of where attitudes can lead. Lest we forget. Yes, let's forget who we are and how to protect our heritage, culture and security because of the Nazis. You promote simplistic, paranoid self destructive clap trap.
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Stirlingsays 25 Jun 24 10.36am | |
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The Hitler regime was geocidal and I'll never support that. However, involving ourselves in its war with communism hasn't worked out for us. Attachment: conseq.jfif (172.14Kb)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Hrolf The Ganger 25 Jun 24 11.09am | |
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Personally, I'm not interested in dragging up history in relation to this subject. All our resident lefty is trying to do is link the right to claim an identity and protect our heritage with Nazis. The problem here is that 'heritage' has been a buzz word for radical far right wing groups for a long time, which taints any opinions regarding immigration and resulting demographic changes and cultural and social issues. These real concerns have to be reclaimed from any association to the radical far right and any historical misdemeanours related to such groups. We must come to realise that the issues facing our population caused by mass immigration are not some sort of extreme ideological fantasy, but very real and at the centre of almost every problem that this nation now endures. The Right need to reclaim the moral high ground on these issues and reject any association to extremism on both sides of politics. The Reform party can be the start of that, but that have a serious battle ahead, not just with other parties but with the liberal/left wing media and those that support it for their own interests. I'm hoping that 5 years of the Left in power might just help things along.
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