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Confederate Statues

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 23 Aug 17 2.06pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Yep, the white supremacists would have been overjoyed seeing and hearing an Asian Robert Lee wouldn't they.

Stupid decision that only exacerbate s things.

Edited by nickgusset (23 Aug 2017 1.47pm)

Surely, in this day and age, it should be unlawful to have the name 'Robert Lee'?

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Aug 17 2.11pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Surely, in this day and age, it should be unlawful to have the name 'Robert Lee'?

I'm surprised it's still lawful to be White.

 

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rob1969 Flag Banstead Surrey 23 Aug 17 2.41pm Send a Private Message to rob1969 Add rob1969 as a friend

Heard (only part/briefly)on radio London this morning a discussion as to whether we should remove statue and asking listeners to nominate.
If this was tongue in cheek then fine,but if at all serious I would find it shocking.
1/ History happened and no removing of statues - or burning of books - can change that
2/ judging historical events/characters by the PC standards of today is nonsense. In their time they reflected many of the accepted norms of their time. Sir Winston Churchill is now considered by many to have been an imperialist, and even racist, but he was a man of his time. With his acid wit - and drinking habits - doubt he would last long in politics today. The PC brigade would have a hay day.
Probably one of the reasons so many politicians seem bland and dull nowadays!

Edited by rob1969 (23 Aug 2017 2.42pm)

 

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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 23 Aug 17 2.41pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yep, different symbols mean different things to different people.

In many people's eyes that flag also represents the independence of the south. Before the rise of minority identity politics you had it displayed a lot....Dukes of Hazard was on the BBC for example.

It also represents a union that implemented slavery and fought to continue it.

Still, if you are in the south and want to take pride in the being from there.....then there are a lack of historical symbols to take up.


This is such whitewashing nonsense. All this blather about southern heritage is just a thinly veiled effort to excuse the display of symbols of white supremacy.

Imagine if Brian Hitler wanted to wander up and down Croydon High Street with a swastika flag as it's the only way he feels he can honour his family's heritage.

There are plenty of ways to show southern pride that don't require going back to the time when people fought other people for the right to own, buy and sell (and torture, rape and kill) other people. Eating directly from a tub of lard, for example.

Edited by Ray in Houston (23 Aug 2017 2.46pm)

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays Flag 23 Aug 17 3.08pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


This is such whitewashing nonsense. All this blather about southern heritage is just a thinly veiled effort to excuse the display of symbols of white supremacy.

Imagine if Brian Hitler wanted to wander up and down Croydon High Street with a swastika flag as it's the only way he feels he can honour his family's heritage.

There are plenty of ways to show southern pride that don't require going back to the time when people fought other people for the right to own, buy and sell (and torture, rape and kill) other people. Eating directly from a tub of lard, for example.

Edited by Ray in Houston (23 Aug 2017 2.46pm)

I think what you are saying here is true for some people but it isn't true for others.

Was Elvis a racist for singing American trilogy. How about his backing singers they sung on it too.....Who gets to tell others what their motivation is.....I think it should require careful observation rather than blanket statements.

Sure some wave that flag and lie about the reasons and some don't.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 23 Aug 17 3.17pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

[Link]


What about this nonsense then?

 


Pro USA & Israel

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Aug 17 3.18pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


This is such whitewashing nonsense. All this blather about southern heritage is just a thinly veiled effort to excuse the display of symbols of white supremacy.

Imagine if Brian Hitler wanted to wander up and down Croydon High Street with a swastika flag as it's the only way he feels he can honour his family's heritage.

There are plenty of ways to show southern pride that don't require going back to the time when people fought other people for the right to own, buy and sell (and torture, rape and kill) other people. Eating directly from a tub of lard, for example.

Edited by Ray in Houston (23 Aug 2017 2.46pm)

That is outrageous racist language.

The question of how much these status celebrate slavery, racism etc is almost beside the point.
The point, as has been suggested numerous times already, is once you start this kind of revisionist judgemental dismantling of history, where does it all end? It is a flawed mentality that is born from ignorance. No one with a brain gives a damn about a statue. What matters is how people behave today. This requires a whole lot of education and moral guidance for all cultures involved, not stupid tokenisms which encourage unrest. I don't care if a load of racists put up the status during times of segregation, I'm more concerned that a bunch of morons pulled them down in 2017. Those idiots are our future.

 

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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 23 Aug 17 3.32pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That is outrageous racist language.

The question of how much these status celebrate slavery, racism etc is almost beside the point.
The point, as has been suggested numerous times already, is once you start this kind of revisionist judgemental dismantling of history, where does it all end? It is a flawed mentality that is born from ignorance. No one with a brain gives a damn about a statue. What matters is how people behave today. This requires a whole lot of education and moral guidance for all cultures involved, not stupid tokenisms which encourage unrest. I don't care if a load of racists put up the status during times of segregation, I'm more concerned that a bunch of morons pulled them down in 2017. Those idiots are our future.


As has been explained previously to the point of exhaustion, the statue of Lee was not simply being removed, it was being moved to a location that the current town council - and their constituents - thought would be more appropriate than a giant stone plinth atop the most prominent location in the entire town.

Claiming that it's destroying the south's heritage, when to anyone of colour - i.e. the majority of residents of Charlottesville - it represents some of the darkest behaviours demonstrable by the human race is to be so callous as to make it impossible to believe that it's being done with anything other than malice.

I agree that simply disposing of such things (or smashing them with a hammer) is not the right answer. We need reminders of such horrors which is why much of Auschwitz is preserved and holocaust museums exist in many cities around the world. But leaving them in a place of honour and prominence is not necessary in order to preserve the history. And note I said "history", not "heritage", because those two words are not interchangeable in this case. In fact, given its definition, "heritage" actually becomes quite sinister.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays Flag 23 Aug 17 3.47pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

This word, 'colour' being used to describe non white people is a bit weird. White people are coloured too. I'm not getting at Ray for using it but making a wider point because it's something I'm noticing more and more.

Technically black or white aren't actually colours but in reality it's extremely unlikely that a white or black person has ever been born that would fit the description.

So we are all coloured. Non caucasian is probably better.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Aug 2017 3.51pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Mapletree Flag Croydon 23 Aug 17 3.58pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

This word, 'colour' being used to describe non white people is a bit weird. White people are coloured too. I'm not getting at Ray for using it but making a wider point because it's something I'm noticing more and more.

Technically black or white aren't actually colours but in reality it's extremely unlikely that a white or black person has ever been born that would fit the description.

So we are all coloured. Non caucasian is probably better.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Aug 2017 3.51pm)

Divided by a common language Stirling. In the US 'people of color' is supposed to be a nice way to say things. In the UK 'coloured' is considered more of a no-no and may indicate mixed race.

Pinky yellow, is a colour. Black isn't it's a shade, as you say.

I admit to being pinky yellow. I work in a basement.

 

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Mapletree Flag Croydon 23 Aug 17 3.59pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


As has been explained previously to the point of exhaustion, the statue of Lee was not simply being removed, it was being moved to a location that the current town council - and their constituents - thought would be more appropriate than a giant stone plinth atop the most prominent location in the entire town.

Claiming that it's destroying the south's heritage, when to anyone of colour - i.e. the majority of residents of Charlottesville - it represents some of the darkest behaviours demonstrable by the human race is to be so callous as to make it impossible to believe that it's being done with anything other than malice.

I agree that simply disposing of such things (or smashing them with a hammer) is not the right answer. We need reminders of such horrors which is why much of Auschwitz is preserved and holocaust museums exist in many cities around the world. But leaving them in a place of honour and prominence is not necessary in order to preserve the history. And note I said "history", not "heritage", because those two words are not interchangeable in this case. In fact, given its definition, "heritage" actually becomes quite sinister.

I like your posts Ray.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Aug 17 4.00pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


As has been explained previously to the point of exhaustion, the statue of Lee was not simply being removed, it was being moved to a location that the current town council - and their constituents - thought would be more appropriate than a giant stone plinth atop the most prominent location in the entire town.

Claiming that it's destroying the south's heritage, when to anyone of colour - i.e. the majority of residents of Charlottesville - it represents some of the darkest behaviours demonstrable by the human race is to be so callous as to make it impossible to believe that it's being done with anything other than malice.

I agree that simply disposing of such things (or smashing them with a hammer) is not the right answer. We need reminders of such horrors which is why much of Auschwitz is preserved and holocaust museums exist in many cities around the world. But leaving them in a place of honour and prominence is not necessary in order to preserve the history. And note I said "history", not "heritage", because those two words are not interchangeable in this case. In fact, given its definition, "heritage" actually becomes quite sinister.

I think you will find that removed is the correct phrase since it was presumably originally moved there from the sculptor's residence.
Whether destroyed or relocated, the message is the same. Pandering to minorities is a way to get their votes and stop them crying about prejudice every five minutes instead of trying to help them improve their own lives in a practical way.

 

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