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Originally posted by steeleye20
I have to mentally adjust whenever I hear the terms 'far' or 'hard' right as routine in the media, when what actually happens is nothing of the sort. The EU shifts mildly centre-right, you would expect some dissatisfaction it's normal. France is the exception this is rather impulsive from Macron, I was thinking the end of an era but he will still be president for quite a while. Le Pen is like Les Dawsons mother-in-law, a dragon. Still up to them, as Macron seems to be saying. What's interesting is that the EU seems to be shifting it's political view to the right whilst we shift ours to the left. This makes me feel very uncomfortable.
Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled. |
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Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer
What's interesting is that the EU seems to be shifting it's political view to the right whilst we shift ours to the left. This makes me feel very uncomfortable. It's an illusion. Many are voting against the Tories because they feel let down, but they will actually be ushering in a Labour government that will be worse. They are probably against mass immigration and are fed up with wokery, crime and all the other nonsense but will still vote for a party who will likely make all that worse. Our electoral system makes it hard for new parties to break through. The share of votes for Reform will increase, but if people realised that Reform could be a real force in Parliament, they might see them as a real alternative to the Tory, Labour merry go round.
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As I mentioned before , when the French conservatives decided to punish the party they got over a decade of Mitterand hell. The socialist govt was on message, buy loads of votes by giving away free stuff. Chirac inherited the standard post socialist financial quagmire
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
I have to mentally adjust whenever I hear the terms 'far' or 'hard' right as routine in the media, when what actually happens is nothing of the sort. The EU shifts mildly centre-right, you would expect some dissatisfaction it's normal. France is the exception this is rather impulsive from Macron, I was thinking the end of an era but he will still be president for quite a while. Le Pen is like Les Dawsons mother-in-law, a dragon. Still up to them, as Macron seems to be saying. I to are slightly puzzled to the extent of the mainstream media reaction to these movements to the 'far right'. Yes, there is a shift, especially with younger voters.....However it isn't quite as dramatic as their copy suggests. It's probably more a reflection of them wanting to sensationalise for clicks than anything major. The shift to a more right wing Europe is inevitable with the EU's immigration policies and stated aims. Though France is certainly in play for Le Penn. However, the real test will be Germany's next election.....where the German state seem to be persecuting and using dirty tricks to suppress AfD.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer
What's interesting is that the EU seems to be shifting it's political view to the right whilst we shift ours to the left. This makes me feel very uncomfortable. In many places if you add Farage's votes to the Tories they outnumber Labour. Farage's Reform are probably going to become the official opposition. Then, after the election, once the Conservatives get rid of all their wet 'one nation liberal' types the two parties will probably merge. The incompetence of the Conservatives and their obsession with copying Blairism is seeing that party under genuine threat of practical extinction. There will be fallout. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Jun 2024 11.25am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines
I'm not so sure. Under Le Pen, they may prefer to prevent migrants from entering their country in the first place, pushing the problem back to neighbouring countries, who in turn may push back to their neighbouring countries. They may actually end up with a proper border! Hopefully
“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
We shouldn't require the help of the French to police our own borders. Any government worth its salt would never have signed up to laws that tied our own hands on our borders or deporting foreigners. These problems are given to us from the Blair years and continued on via the neo and social liberals who came after. Any Conservative government worth the name would have planned to throw out Blair's laws the moment it took office. Instead the types of Tories in the leaderships worshiped him. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Jun 2024 10.01am) Correct
“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
Many blame the EU for the immigration - so it's not a protest vote in the way you're describing. Le Pen in France who knows? I tend to doubt it. But take a look at Holland - Gert Wilders, Italy - Meloni just to name a couple and there are several more. Danish government has a Rwanda policy. They are not protest votes. They are the government. The fuel - immigration. Edited by ASCPFC (10 Jun 2024 10.44am) Many places, in all of history, have had tons of immigration. And thrived because of it. New York. San Francisco during the Gold Rush. Welsh mining valleys in Victorian times. The real fuel.....messed up immigration. No cultural assimilation , no skills, no women, no jobs, no commitment to contribute to society, no balance in the numbers, no acceptance of this from the local population etc etc. Would you fight to defend this State ? this government ? cos i wouldnt , not on your nelly.
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
Many blame the EU for the immigration - so it's not a protest vote in the way you're describing. Le Pen in France who knows? I tend to doubt it. But take a look at Holland - Gert Wilders, Italy - Meloni just to name a couple and there are several more. Danish government has a Rwanda policy. They are not protest votes. They are the government. The fuel - immigration. Edited by ASCPFC (10 Jun 2024 10.44am) That they are protesting about immigration is undoubtedly true but protest it is. If and when the right get any kind of lever on the power to do something, and then fail as they are sure to, the protests will be directed at them and the popularity of the populists will evaporate as quickly as it arrived. The underlying political outlook of the majority of the people in Europe, and in the UK, is social democratic. That is only going to increase as our younger generations are more progressive and socially aware than the older ones. The level of optimism in this thread from the right that this is a watershed moment for them seems complete nonsense to me. The idea that Reform will become the official opposing in the UK before becoming the next government but one, especially so as I doubt they will get more than one seat. Their voice needs to be heard though and the only way to properly achieve that is via PR. Only when their arguments are debated and countered in Parliament will I be satisfied. That though will not be gifted to them anytime soon.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That they are protesting about immigration is undoubtedly true but protest it is. If and when the right get any kind of lever on the power to do something, and then fail as they are sure to, the protests will be directed at them and the popularity of the populists will evaporate as quickly as it arrived. The underlying political outlook of the majority of the people in Europe, and in the UK, is social democratic. That is only going to increase as our younger generations are more progressive and socially aware than the older ones. The level of optimism in this thread from the right that this is a watershed moment for them seems complete nonsense to me. The idea that Reform will become the official opposing in the UK before becoming the next government but one, especially so as I doubt they will get more than one seat. Their voice needs to be heard though and the only way to properly achieve that is via PR. Only when their arguments are debated and countered in Parliament will I be satisfied. That though will not be gifted to them anytime soon. What complete and utter codswallop. Any government will be criticised by its opponents. The electorate will always complain about something. The young voter gets old and wiser. They usually become more conservative as they age. A centrist like you is happy to endure anything as long as no one makes a fuss.
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Today is the start of a new era in Europe: France: National Rally wins a historic 31.5% of the EU vote, forcing Macron to dissolve the national parliament. Germany: AfD surges to become the 2nd largest party, liberal parties tank. Belgium: Prime Minister resigns after his crushing defeat against the right. Italy: Meloni's Brother of Italy wins in a historic landslide Austria: FPÖ doubles their seats and becomes the largest party in the nation. Spain: Right beating the left by 10%. 🇱🇺 Luxemburg: First ever seat for ADR. The list goes on.
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Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer
What's interesting is that the EU seems to be shifting it's political view to the right whilst we shift ours to the left. This makes me feel very uncomfortable. It isn't really "the left" though is it? Centrist with off-pink frills.
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