Rules is rules aren't they?

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Rules is rules aren't they?

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 04 Oct 22 8.52am
If that's not a clear goal scoring opportunity and deliberate foul play I really don't know what is. Any player who has the ball there is expected to bear down on goal and score. Anything less and it would be seen as a huge opportunity wasted. Attachment: Ayew vs Chelsea.png (1,356.44Kb) Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 04 Oct 22 8.52am

If that's not a clear goal scoring opportunity and deliberate foul play I really don't know what is.

Any player who has the ball there is expected to bear down on goal and score. Anything less and it would be seen as a huge opportunity wasted.

Attachment: Ayew vs Chelsea.png (1,356.44Kb)

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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West Stand Dorchester 04 Oct 22 9.43am
Originally posted by Nicholas91 If that's not a clear goal scoring opportunity and deliberate foul play I really don't know what is. Any player who has the ball there is expected to bear down on goal and score. Anything less and it would be seen as a huge opportunity wasted. Look no one is denying it wasn’t a deliberate hand ball but refs are told quite simply to play advantage, if they can, when the position is promising but you are confusing a goal scoring opportunity with a clear goal scoring opportunity. There is absolutely no way he was in a position to get a shot off nor was it close enough to say with certainty that he would have been able to. Anyways it’s ok academic because it wasn’t given and having listened to the likes of Gallagher and read other ex referees take on it nor do they
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West Stand

Dorchester 04 Oct 22 9.43am

Originally posted by Nicholas91

If that's not a clear goal scoring opportunity and deliberate foul play I really don't know what is.

Any player who has the ball there is expected to bear down on goal and score. Anything less and it would be seen as a huge opportunity wasted.

Look no one is denying it wasn’t a deliberate hand ball but refs are told quite simply to play advantage, if they can, when the position is promising but you are confusing a goal scoring opportunity with a clear goal scoring opportunity. There is absolutely no way he was in a position to get a shot off nor was it close enough to say with certainty that he would have been able to.

Anyways it’s ok academic because it wasn’t given and having listened to the likes of Gallagher and read other ex referees take on it nor do they

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 04 Oct 22 9.48am
Originally posted by West Stand Look no one is denying it wasn’t a deliberate hand ball but refs are told quite simply to play advantage, if they can, when the position is promising but you are confusing a goal scoring opportunity with a clear goal scoring opportunity. There is absolutely no way he was in a position to get a shot off nor was it close enough to say with certainty that he would have been able to. Anyways it’s ok academic because it wasn’t given and having listened to the likes of Gallagher and read other ex referees take on it nor do they He was, he absolutely was. I was at the game, in fact in the shot I've given with the adequate technology you could pick me out. I could have got a shot off from there had someone not played the ball with their hand. It's cheating, both from Silva and the officials, but hey let's just ignore it eh for the ol' oligarch funded rent boys. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 04 Oct 22 9.48am

Originally posted by West Stand

Look no one is denying it wasn’t a deliberate hand ball but refs are told quite simply to play advantage, if they can, when the position is promising but you are confusing a goal scoring opportunity with a clear goal scoring opportunity. There is absolutely no way he was in a position to get a shot off nor was it close enough to say with certainty that he would have been able to.

Anyways it’s ok academic because it wasn’t given and having listened to the likes of Gallagher and read other ex referees take on it nor do they

He was, he absolutely was. I was at the game, in fact in the shot I've given with the adequate technology you could pick me out. I could have got a shot off from there had someone not played the ball with their hand. It's cheating, both from Silva and the officials, but hey let's just ignore it eh for the ol' oligarch funded rent boys.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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crystal-purley Purley 04 Oct 22 9.56am
Looking at this again with the pic supplied (cheers), Ayew is beyond the centre circle by about ten yards and although Chilwell is central and level with Ayew when the initial handball was made he would have been a few yards back. As others have said change the shirt colour and the ref changes the card colour. If this was the only "mistake" the ref made then fair dos but fouls not given, multiple fouls by Chels players not being punished and two times Palace players lying injured on the ground and play carrying on. Enjoying getting up later and not having someone who knows better than me (apart from the missus of course).
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crystal-purley

Purley 04 Oct 22 9.56am

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Looking at this again with the pic supplied (cheers), Ayew is beyond the centre circle by about ten yards and although Chilwell is central and level with Ayew when the initial handball was made he would have been a few yards back. As others have said change the shirt colour and the ref changes the card colour. If this was the only "mistake" the ref made then fair dos but fouls not given, multiple fouls by Chels players not being punished and two times Palace players lying injured on the ground and play carrying on.

Enjoying getting up later and not having someone who knows better than me (apart from the missus of course).

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dreamwaverider London 04 Oct 22 9.57am
Originally posted by Nicholas91 He was, he absolutely was. I was at the game, in fact in the shot I've given with the adequate technology you could pick me out. I could have got a shot off from there had someone not played the ball with their hand. It's cheating, both from Silva and the officials, but hey let's just ignore it eh for the ol' oligarch funded rent boys. If football ignores the outcome of Silvas clear cheating action then it condones the very worst in the sport. So many yellow cards have been given for over exuberance like taking the shirt off. So if that ranks the same as blatant cheating then they need to revisit the rules. I would create sin bins. Say from 10-30mins. Silva would have got 30. If football allows cheats to stay on the pitch then something is very wrong with the game. Silva definitely cheated big time. Ruins the game. FA should haul him in and ban him for 3 games. Cheating like that kills the game. Cheat.
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dreamwaverider

London 04 Oct 22 9.57am

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Originally posted by Nicholas91

If football ignores the outcome of Silvas clear cheating action then it condones the very worst in the sport. So many yellow cards have been given for over exuberance like taking the shirt off. So if that ranks the same as blatant cheating then they need to revisit the rules.
I would create sin bins. Say from 10-30mins. Silva would have got 30. If football allows cheats to stay on the pitch then something is very wrong with the game.
Silva definitely cheated big time. Ruins the game.
FA should haul him in and ban him for 3 games.
Cheating like that kills the game.
Cheat.

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Spiderman Horsham 04 Oct 22 1.35pm
Originally posted by Nicholas91 He couldn't play an advantage as Silva had played the ball with his hand denying the opportunity, that's the point. He slapped the ball when Ayew had it at his feet, going towards goal!! He denied Ayew the opportunity to bear down on goal for a 1:1. That's denial of a clear goal scoring opportunity lol FFS. There's no grey here. Silva did what he did as he knew full well that is was a clear goal scoring opportunity, no other reason. Exactly the 2nd handball caused Ayew to lose control of the ball. Players have been sent off fir being the last man, on the half way line, how can that be an obvious goal scoring opportunity when there is at least 50 yds to go? Are these decisions now being taken on the basis of a players FIFA stats? The ref gave Palace nothing all afternoon and completely ignored players being fouled off the ball. We all know a Palace player would have walked for the handball. If you anyone doesn’t agree about the bias, look at Wards “backpass” it hit his shin and ref only gave it after Mount appealed again!
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Spiderman

Horsham 04 Oct 22 1.35pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

He couldn't play an advantage as Silva had played the ball with his hand denying the opportunity, that's the point. He slapped the ball when Ayew had it at his feet, going towards goal!! He denied Ayew the opportunity to bear down on goal for a 1:1. That's denial of a clear goal scoring opportunity lol FFS.

There's no grey here. Silva did what he did as he knew full well that is was a clear goal scoring opportunity, no other reason.

Exactly the 2nd handball caused Ayew to lose control of the ball. Players have been sent off fir being the last man, on the half way line, how can that be an obvious goal scoring opportunity when there is at least 50 yds to go? Are these decisions now being taken on the basis of a players FIFA stats?
The ref gave Palace nothing all afternoon and completely ignored players being fouled off the ball.
We all know a Palace player would have walked for the handball.
If you anyone doesn’t agree about the bias, look at Wards “backpass” it hit his shin and ref only gave it after Mount appealed again!

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TheBigToePunt 04 Oct 22 1.40pm
Originally posted by dreamwaverider If football ignores the outcome of Silvas clear cheating action then it condones the very worst in the sport. So many yellow cards have been given for over exuberance like taking the shirt off. So if that ranks the same as blatant cheating then they need to revisit the rules. I would create sin bins. Say from 10-30mins. Silva would have got 30. If football allows cheats to stay on the pitch then something is very wrong with the game. Silva definitely cheated big time. Ruins the game. FA should haul him in and ban him for 3 games. Cheating like that kills the game. Cheat. Personally, I don't think it was a clear goalscoring opportunity (though it was on the borderline of being one), but I think your point about deliberate cheating ruining the game is far more important anyway. Whether it's players handling a ball they can't reach fairly, falling to the ground under minimal contact, or tactical fouling, there is a lot of lower-level, higher-frequency cheating that goes insufficiently punished. We focus on serious foul play, handball on the line, and fouls that deny shooting chances because they are easier to spot and have a more obvious immediate impact, but players treat 'small' free kicks like something they can choose to buy or give away, as just another way in which they can affect a game. Dribbled up a dead end? No problem, put your body between the ball and the opponent, wait to feel contact, fall over. Problem solved! Team under pressure? Ball cleared up to you on the halfway line with no support? No problem, just back into the defender and fall over. Free kick. Pressure over! Hesitant to commit yourself to the attack in case the opponent wins the ball back and counters? No problem, just press their defender immediately after you give the ball away, don't dive in, just make glancing contact, enough to affect his forward pass. You are so far from goal that the foul seems innocuous and you'll rarely get booked (especially if you are clever enough to take turns doing it), but you never have to face that pesky counter-attack! You get the benefit of them getting a free kick! It all just kills the tempo, denies opportunities for free-flowing football, and reduces the amount of time the ball is live (it's already only something like 65 minutes out of 90 anyway). Cynical play is as old as the hills, and inevitable in many ways when you want your players to care and try their best, but refs do need to wise up to it, just like they wised up to professional fouls and serious foul play.
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TheBigToePunt

04 Oct 22 1.40pm

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

If football ignores the outcome of Silvas clear cheating action then it condones the very worst in the sport. So many yellow cards have been given for over exuberance like taking the shirt off. So if that ranks the same as blatant cheating then they need to revisit the rules.
I would create sin bins. Say from 10-30mins. Silva would have got 30. If football allows cheats to stay on the pitch then something is very wrong with the game.
Silva definitely cheated big time. Ruins the game.
FA should haul him in and ban him for 3 games.
Cheating like that kills the game.
Cheat.

Personally, I don't think it was a clear goalscoring opportunity (though it was on the borderline of being one), but I think your point about deliberate cheating ruining the game is far more important anyway.

Whether it's players handling a ball they can't reach fairly, falling to the ground under minimal contact, or tactical fouling, there is a lot of lower-level, higher-frequency cheating that goes insufficiently punished.

We focus on serious foul play, handball on the line, and fouls that deny shooting chances because they are easier to spot and have a more obvious immediate impact, but players treat 'small' free kicks like something they can choose to buy or give away, as just another way in which they can affect a game.

Dribbled up a dead end? No problem, put your body between the ball and the opponent, wait to feel contact, fall over. Problem solved!

Team under pressure? Ball cleared up to you on the halfway line with no support? No problem, just back into the defender and fall over. Free kick. Pressure over!

Hesitant to commit yourself to the attack in case the opponent wins the ball back and counters? No problem, just press their defender immediately after you give the ball away, don't dive in, just make glancing contact, enough to affect his forward pass. You are so far from goal that the foul seems innocuous and you'll rarely get booked (especially if you are clever enough to take turns doing it), but you never have to face that pesky counter-attack! You get the benefit of them getting a free kick!

It all just kills the tempo, denies opportunities for free-flowing football, and reduces the amount of time the ball is live (it's already only something like 65 minutes out of 90 anyway).

Cynical play is as old as the hills, and inevitable in many ways when you want your players to care and try their best, but refs do need to wise up to it, just like they wised up to professional fouls and serious foul play.

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CrazyBadger Ware 04 Oct 22 1.47pm
Originally posted by West Stand The interesting thing here is if the ref thought there was a “ clear goal scoring opportunity “ he almost probably would have played advantage. The fact he blew suggests that he didn’t. Interestingly if he had played advantage irrespective of the outcome of that phase of play Silva couldn’t have been sanctioned Irrespective heres what refs are told to factor into such incidents point one and two are the two that would tip it in my opinion 1: The distance between the offence and the goal. The closer it is to the penalty and goal areas the more likely the criteria would be satisfied. It’s not only the proximity, but also the area of the pitch, centrally in and around the penalty area is likely to satisfy the criteria, being right out on a touchline near the corner for example wouldn’t. 2: The general direction of play. If the striker has his back to goal or is side on looking to play the ball to an opponent then it will not fit the criteria for DOGSO. He needs to be in a position to be able to be about to take a shot or in the process of lining up a shot. 3: Likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball. This can be applied equally to the striker and to the defender. In relation to the striker, he does not have to have the ball actually at his feet, he could be running onto a pass from a team mate that, without the action of the defender/goalkeeper, he would have collected and had a shot on target, for example. In relation to the defender he needs to have a chance of winning the ball, for example by a clean, well timed tackle. If the striker has got away from the defender and the only means to stop him getting a shot away is to push him over or pull him back then the defender does not have any possibility of playing the ball and therefore no chance of “gaining control of the ball”. 4: The location and number of other defenders, which includes the goalkeeper. There is no set distance specified but the general rule is that if there is a covering defender or goalkeeper within range to make a tackle then the criteria for DOGSO are unlikely to be met. If the goalkeeper is stranded, has already committed to diving one way, leaving the player the opportunity to chip over him or shoot the other side of him or is the player making a last ditch tackle then the DOGSO criteria is liable to be met. If another defender, including the goalkeeper is in a close enough position to make a lawful tackle or attempt a save then the criteria will not be met. Question: Ignoring Team colours.... If that was Haaland/Salah/Messi instead of Ayew, would that have constituted a Clear Goal Scoring opportunity ? "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 04 Oct 22 1.47pm

Originally posted by West Stand

The interesting thing here is if the ref thought there was a “ clear goal scoring opportunity “ he almost probably would have played advantage. The fact he blew suggests that he didn’t.
Interestingly if he had played advantage irrespective of the outcome of that phase of play Silva couldn’t have been sanctioned
Irrespective heres what refs are told to factor into such incidents point one and two are the two that would tip it in my opinion

1: The distance between the offence and the goal. The closer it is to the penalty and goal areas the more likely the criteria would be satisfied. It’s not only the proximity, but also the area of the pitch, centrally in and around the penalty area is likely to satisfy the criteria, being right out on a touchline near the corner for example wouldn’t.

2: The general direction of play. If the striker has his back to goal or is side on looking to play the ball to an opponent then it will not fit the criteria for DOGSO. He needs to be in a position to be able to be about to take a shot or in the process of lining up a shot.

3: Likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball. This can be applied equally to the striker and to the defender. In relation to the striker, he does not have to have the ball actually at his feet, he could be running onto a pass from a team mate that, without the action of the defender/goalkeeper, he would have collected and had a shot on target, for example. In relation to the defender he needs to have a chance of winning the ball, for example by a clean, well timed tackle. If the striker has got away from the defender and the only means to stop him getting a shot away is to push him over or pull him back then the defender does not have any possibility of playing the ball and therefore no chance of “gaining control of the ball”.

4: The location and number of other defenders, which includes the goalkeeper. There is no set distance specified but the general rule is that if there is a covering defender or goalkeeper within range to make a tackle then the criteria for DOGSO are unlikely to be met. If the goalkeeper is stranded, has already committed to diving one way, leaving the player the opportunity to chip over him or shoot the other side of him or is the player making a last ditch tackle then the DOGSO criteria is liable to be met. If another defender, including the goalkeeper is in a close enough position to make a lawful tackle or attempt a save then the criteria will not be met.

Question: Ignoring Team colours.... If that was Haaland/Salah/Messi instead of Ayew, would that have constituted a Clear Goal Scoring opportunity ?

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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HeathMan Purley 04 Oct 22 3.11pm
We have to be thankful that there was no boot to hand contact. It would have been fascinating to listen to Mr Potter explain that Jordan Ayew being sent off was correct. On the same theme how many times would Wilf need to be taken out to be sent off? Can there be two VAR officials (one watching for rules being broken; one looking opposition gamesmanship) when Palace are playing?
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HeathMan

Purley 04 Oct 22 3.11pm

We have to be thankful that there was no boot to hand contact. It would have been fascinating to listen to Mr Potter explain that Jordan Ayew being sent off was correct. On the same theme how many times would Wilf need to be taken out to be sent off?

Can there be two VAR officials (one watching for rules being broken; one looking opposition gamesmanship) when Palace are playing?

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Dubai Eagle 04 Oct 22 3.11pm
Love the way that the acronym DOGSO has been so readily accepted -
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Dubai Eagle

04 Oct 22 3.11pm

Love the way that the acronym DOGSO has been so readily accepted -

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Palace BANANA Ringmer, Lewes, East Sussex 04 Oct 22 4.04pm
Players who commit a foul to deny a goalscoring opportunity will no longer automatically be sent off, football's rule-making body has confirmed. The previous 'triple-punishment' rule required a red card - and therefore a suspension - as well as the award of a penalty under those circumstances. However, players committing accidental fouls that deny a goalscoring chance will now be cautioned instead. But deliberate fouls will still incur a red card. Those include holding, pulling or pushing, not playing the ball, serious foul play, violent conduct or deliberate handball in order to deny a goalscoring opportunity.
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Palace BANANA

Ringmer, Lewes, East Sussex 04 Oct 22 4.04pm

Players who commit a foul to deny a goalscoring opportunity will no longer automatically be sent off, football's rule-making body has confirmed.

The previous 'triple-punishment' rule required a red card - and therefore a suspension - as well as the award of a penalty under those circumstances.

However, players committing accidental fouls that deny a goalscoring chance will now be cautioned instead.

But deliberate fouls will still incur a red card.

Those include holding, pulling or pushing, not playing the ball, serious foul play, violent conduct or deliberate handball in order to deny a goalscoring opportunity.

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Palace BANANA Ringmer, Lewes, East Sussex 04 Oct 22 4.08pm
DOGSO rules apparently.... so the way I read those rules it was a deliberate handball so Thiago should've been red carded as he was their last man and prevented Ayew the opportunity to go for goal
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Palace BANANA

Ringmer, Lewes, East Sussex 04 Oct 22 4.08pm

DOGSO rules apparently.... so the way I read those rules it was a deliberate handball so Thiago should've been red carded as he was their last man and prevented Ayew the opportunity to go for goal

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