Tim Martin

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Tim Martin

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Badger11 Beckenham 04 Jun 21 10.01am
Originally posted by Spiderman Couple of years ago, my son was desperately trying to find work, he had just left Uni. As he was over 21, I believe the minimum wage is slightly higher than for Under 21s. He applied at our local chip pie, who had been advertising for weeks, he was flexible as to how many hours and when he could work, they were keen until he said he was over 21, never heard again. The same applied when he applied to Sports Direct. So it is not always that kids don’t want to work. Agreed which is why it is even more disgraceful that the hospitality sector is not being criticised by the media. They and the tourist sector have had billions in taxpayers monies and all they do is bitch and moan. They need to be brought to account by the media. If we need IT workers, chemists, NHS workers etc. now fine bring them in but we do not need unskilled labour. Edited by Badger11 (04 Jun 2021 10.02am) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 04 Jun 21 10.01am

Originally posted by Spiderman

Couple of years ago, my son was desperately trying to find work, he had just left Uni. As he was over 21, I believe the minimum wage is slightly higher than for Under 21s. He applied at our local chip pie, who had been advertising for weeks, he was flexible as to how many hours and when he could work, they were keen until he said he was over 21, never heard again. The same applied when he applied to Sports Direct.
So it is not always that kids don’t want to work.

Agreed which is why it is even more disgraceful that the hospitality sector is not being criticised by the media. They and the tourist sector have had billions in taxpayers monies and all they do is bitch and moan. They need to be brought to account by the media.

If we need IT workers, chemists, NHS workers etc. now fine bring them in but we do not need unskilled labour.

Edited by Badger11 (04 Jun 2021 10.02am)

One more point

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Orange1290 04 Jun 21 10.03am
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle Pre 2004 there were no Eastern European workers and 30% more pubs yet they were all staffed. It’s a fallacy that the country require an endless stream of cheap labour. Pre 2004 there were around 1.5 million EU citizens living and working in the UK. After 2004 the numbers increased but to claim there were 'no eastern European citizens' within that 1.5 million is incorrect. Many were already working on farms in the UK but EU membership made the opportunity to work in other EU countries easier for those who weren't ready before 2004. Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

04 Jun 21 10.03am

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

Pre 2004 there were no Eastern European workers and 30% more pubs yet they were all staffed.

It’s a fallacy that the country require an endless stream of cheap labour.

Pre 2004 there were around 1.5 million EU citizens living and working in the UK. After 2004 the numbers increased but to claim there were 'no eastern European citizens' within that 1.5 million is incorrect. Many were already working on farms in the UK but EU membership made the opportunity to work in other EU countries easier for those who weren't ready before 2004.

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Orange1290 04 Jun 21 10.05am
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle They don’t want British workers as British workers generally demand to be paid a fair wage. Low wages are a direct result of open immigration. The left never mention this which is a shame, as it’s the working man who has been f@cked by this. Or maybe British workers demand to be overpaid and under productive. Even France has had higher productivity than the UK for years. Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

04 Jun 21 10.05am

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

They don’t want British workers as British workers generally demand to be paid a fair wage.

Low wages are a direct result of open immigration. The left never mention this which is a shame, as it’s the working man who has been f@cked by this.

Or maybe British workers demand to be overpaid and under productive. Even France has had higher productivity than the UK for years.

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Orange1290 04 Jun 21 10.09am
Originally posted by Badger11 Agreed which is why it is even more disgraceful that the hospitality sector is not being criticised by the media. They and the tourist sector have had billions in taxpayers monies and all they do is bitch and moan. They need to be brought to account by the media. If we need IT workers, chemists, NHS workers etc. now fine bring them in but we do not need unskilled labour. Edited by Badger11 (04 Jun 2021 10.02am) There are plenty of very skilled IT workers, chemists, health workers etc within the EU. However, they will in the vast majority of cases be snapped up by other EU countries as they can offer very good salaries and there will be no red tape, paper work, visas etc, just get a flight, drive a car or get a train and tomorrow you can start your new job within a choice of 26 other countries outside of your own. It works very well, I should know having done exactly that in 7 different EU countries. It opens up fantastic opportunities and made very, very easy for the EU citizen. Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

04 Jun 21 10.09am

Originally posted by Badger11

If we need IT workers, chemists, NHS workers etc. now fine bring them in but we do not need unskilled labour.

Edited by Badger11 (04 Jun 2021 10.02am)

There are plenty of very skilled IT workers, chemists, health workers etc within the EU. However, they will in the vast majority of cases be snapped up by other EU countries as they can offer very good salaries and there will be no red tape, paper work, visas etc, just get a flight, drive a car or get a train and tomorrow you can start your new job within a choice of 26 other countries outside of your own. It works very well, I should know having done exactly that in 7 different EU countries. It opens up fantastic opportunities and made very, very easy for the EU citizen.

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 04 Jun 21 10.13am
Originally posted by Orange1290 Pre 2004 there were around 1.5 million EU citizens living and working in the UK. After 2004 the numbers increased but to claim there were 'no eastern European citizens' within that 1.5 million is incorrect. Many were already working on farms in the UK but EU membership made the opportunity to work in other EU countries easier for those who weren't ready before 2004. Read my post again. I did not say EU workers, I said Eastern European workers, who were not allowed to come until 2004. Many who were here before then would have been illegal. "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 04 Jun 21 10.13am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Read my post again.

I did not say EU workers, I said Eastern European workers, who were not allowed to come until 2004.

Many who were here before then would have been illegal.

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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corkery Cork City 04 Jun 21 10.33am
Wetherspoons is a terrible pub. It's like a Ryanair version of a pub. We'll never die
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corkery

Cork City 04 Jun 21 10.33am

Wetherspoons is a terrible pub. It's like a Ryanair version of a pub.

We'll never die

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Orange1290 04 Jun 21 10.36am
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle Read my post again. I did not say EU workers, I said Eastern European workers, who were not allowed to come until 2004. Many who were here before then would have been illegal. Of course they were 'allowed' to come, they just applied for a visa pre 2004 in the same way as UK citizens had to apply for a visa to travel to a variety of Easter European countries. I worked in Croatia and Hungary between 1997 and 2000. To state there were no 'Eastern' European workers in the UK pre 2004 is incorrect. Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

04 Jun 21 10.36am

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

Read my post again.

I did not say EU workers, I said Eastern European workers, who were not allowed to come until 2004.

Many who were here before then would have been illegal.

Of course they were 'allowed' to come, they just applied for a visa pre 2004 in the same way as UK citizens had to apply for a visa to travel to a variety of Easter European countries. I worked in Croatia and Hungary between 1997 and 2000. To state there were no 'Eastern' European workers in the UK pre 2004 is incorrect.

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 04 Jun 21 10.43am
Originally posted by Orange1290 Of course they were 'allowed' to come, they just applied for a visa pre 2004 in the same way as UK citizens had to apply for a visa to travel to a variety of Easter European countries. I worked in Croatia and Hungary between 1997 and 2000. To state there were no 'Eastern' European workers in the UK pre 2004 is incorrect. Getting back on subject. Pubs managed just fine before the arrival of Eastern European workers. "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 04 Jun 21 10.43am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Getting back on subject.

Pubs managed just fine before the arrival of Eastern European workers.

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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Spiderman Horsham 04 Jun 21 10.52am
Originally posted by Orange1290 Of course they were 'allowed' to come, they just applied for a visa pre 2004 in the same way as UK citizens had to apply for a visa to travel to a variety of Easter European countries. I worked in Croatia and Hungary between 1997 and 2000. To state there were no 'Eastern' European workers in the UK pre 2004 is incorrect. If they were coming to work, they would have needed to qualify for a work permit and visa
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Spiderman

Horsham 04 Jun 21 10.52am

Originally posted by Orange1290

If they were coming to work, they would have needed to qualify for a work permit and visa

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Badger11 Beckenham 04 Jun 21 10.55am
Originally posted by Orange1290 Or maybe British workers demand to be overpaid and under productive. Even France has had higher productivity than the UK for years. I am not saying your wrong but you should always take productivity numbers with a pinch of salt. Countries use different methodology for calculating productivity and whilst i agree that the UK is lagging behind I do raise an eyebrow when you see some of the countries that are supposedly more productive than us. But back to your point you are knocking British workers when you should be knocking the companies who are not giving them a chance. Edited by Badger11 (04 Jun 2021 10.56am) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 04 Jun 21 10.55am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Or maybe British workers demand to be overpaid and under productive. Even France has had higher productivity than the UK for years.

I am not saying your wrong but you should always take productivity numbers with a pinch of salt. Countries use different methodology for calculating productivity and whilst i agree that the UK is lagging behind I do raise an eyebrow when you see some of the countries that are supposedly more productive than us.

But back to your point you are knocking British workers when you should be knocking the companies who are not giving them a chance.

Edited by Badger11 (04 Jun 2021 10.56am)

One more point

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Badger11 Beckenham 04 Jun 21 11.02am
Originally posted by Orange1290 There are plenty of very skilled IT workers, chemists, health workers etc within the EU. However, they will in the vast majority of cases be snapped up by other EU countries as they can offer very good salaries and there will be no red tape, paper work, visas etc, just get a flight, drive a car or get a train and tomorrow you can start your new job within a choice of 26 other countries outside of your own. It works very well, I should know having done exactly that in 7 different EU countries. It opens up fantastic opportunities and made very, very easy for the EU citizen. I agree but I never said we had to recruit from the EU that is the whole point of the new immigration rules as long as you are qualified you can come from anywhere. As regarding how attractive the EU versus the UK well 5.5 million EU citizens have obtained settled status in the UK so we are not that unattractive. It's about companies offering an attractive package if a company wants to bring in say German workers they are already on a decent wage so you would have to offer more. Anyway this is nothing to do with importing cheap unskilled labour. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 04 Jun 21 11.02am

Originally posted by Orange1290

There are plenty of very skilled IT workers, chemists, health workers etc within the EU. However, they will in the vast majority of cases be snapped up by other EU countries as they can offer very good salaries and there will be no red tape, paper work, visas etc, just get a flight, drive a car or get a train and tomorrow you can start your new job within a choice of 26 other countries outside of your own. It works very well, I should know having done exactly that in 7 different EU countries. It opens up fantastic opportunities and made very, very easy for the EU citizen.

I agree but I never said we had to recruit from the EU that is the whole point of the new immigration rules as long as you are qualified you can come from anywhere.

As regarding how attractive the EU versus the UK well 5.5 million EU citizens have obtained settled status in the UK so we are not that unattractive.

It's about companies offering an attractive package if a company wants to bring in say German workers they are already on a decent wage so you would have to offer more.

Anyway this is nothing to do with importing cheap unskilled labour.

One more point

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DanH SW2 04 Jun 21 12.27pm
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle They don’t want British workers as British workers generally demand to be paid a fair wage. Low wages are a direct result of open immigration. The left never mention this which is a shame, as it’s the working man who has been f@cked by this. Low wages are a combination of a number of things. Labour supply being just one of them. The demand for cheap goods in an economy where consumption is high is far greater. We have become accustomed to paying extremely cheap prices for goods (especially agricultural goods) which means that these have to be produced extremely cheaply. This means low wages and low standards. Rising inequality also suggests that company profits are not filtering their way through to rising wages, rather being distributed as dividends to shareholders/directors. A lot of businesses will seek to pay the minimum that the market (or NMW legislation) will allow to maximise profit margins rather than pass these on to staff.
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DanH

SW2 04 Jun 21 12.27pm

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

They don’t want British workers as British workers generally demand to be paid a fair wage.

Low wages are a direct result of open immigration. The left never mention this which is a shame, as it’s the working man who has been f@cked by this.

Low wages are a combination of a number of things. Labour supply being just one of them. The demand for cheap goods in an economy where consumption is high is far greater. We have become accustomed to paying extremely cheap prices for goods (especially agricultural goods) which means that these have to be produced extremely cheaply. This means low wages and low standards.

Rising inequality also suggests that company profits are not filtering their way through to rising wages, rather being distributed as dividends to shareholders/directors. A lot of businesses will seek to pay the minimum that the market (or NMW legislation) will allow to maximise profit margins rather than pass these on to staff.

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