Hanau terrorist attack.

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Ghostship Norfolk 20 Feb 20 1.53pm
Originally posted by Jimenez I'm surprised the BBC haven't put the cause of the attack down to 'Mental Illness' they usually do!! Seems that the mental health card gets played just as much as the race card these days. Scumbags using it as an excuse for crime when I bet most of them have never suffered with it at all. Things like that make it harder for people who do genuinely suffer from mental health difficulties.
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Ghostship

Norfolk 20 Feb 20 1.53pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

I'm surprised the BBC haven't put the cause of the attack down to 'Mental Illness' they usually do!!

Seems that the mental health card gets played just as much as the race card these days. Scumbags using it as an excuse for crime when I bet most of them have never suffered with it at all. Things like that make it harder for people who do genuinely suffer from mental health difficulties.

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Stirlingsays 20 Feb 20 1.55pm
As for kids who read this forum. I advise them to seek out what is true in any arena of life. Don't listen to propaganda, not to me or him or anyone. Look for the statistics....some will be hidden, check out those who have done so in the past but also check out if they are being accurate......Have your views informed by the data, not wish fulfillment. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Feb 20 1.55pm

As for kids who read this forum. I advise them to seek out what is true in any arena of life.

Don't listen to propaganda, not to me or him or anyone.

Look for the statistics....some will be hidden, check out those who have done so in the past but also check out if they are being accurate......Have your views informed by the data, not wish fulfillment.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 20 Feb 20 1.59pm
Originally posted by serial thriller This is the weirdest post I've ever seen on this site. Edited by serial thriller (20 Feb 2020 1.25pm) Comedy is subjective and sometimes not even what the person delivering it thinks or believes, as on tv programmes, especially left wing comedians satirising right leaning or just normal people. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 20 Feb 20 1.59pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

This is the weirdest post I've ever seen on this site.

Edited by serial thriller (20 Feb 2020 1.25pm)

Comedy is subjective and sometimes not even what the person delivering it thinks or believes, as on tv programmes, especially left wing comedians satirising right leaning or just normal people.

COYP

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DanH SW2 20 Feb 20 2.01pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays As for kids who read this forum. I advise them to seek out what is true in any arena of life. Don't listen to propaganda, not to me or him or anyone. Look for the statistics....some will be hidden, check out those who have done so in the past but also check out if they are being accurate......Have your views informed by the data, not wish fulfillment. This is quite rich coming from one of PJW’s disciples. Accurately analysing data and drawing accurate conclusions within a small margin of error is very, very difficult. Quoting two stats and claiming they are linked isn’t enough.
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DanH

SW2 20 Feb 20 2.01pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

As for kids who read this forum. I advise them to seek out what is true in any arena of life.

Don't listen to propaganda, not to me or him or anyone.

This is quite rich coming from one of PJW’s disciples. Accurately analysing data and drawing accurate conclusions within a small margin of error is very, very difficult. Quoting two stats and claiming they are linked isn’t enough.

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serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Feb 20 2.02pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The Daily Mirror? That constitutes your evidence? Did you even read the article? It focuses on EU crime...which isn't significant, and then at the end actually implies the truth and where the real problem comes from. Here is some historical data. [Link] Look at the jump from around 1965. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Feb 2020 1.49pm) Ok, there was a spike in the 60s. But does this correlate to increasing levels of migration? Well actually migration jumped post-war. That was when the biggest influx of migrants arrived, and the graph on this handy link shows that the next big wave was in the 70s after our entry in to the EU, which has seen a staggered rise in migration as other countries joined: [Link] So in the 60s, migration actually flatlined. So what is your suggestion, that the 40s generation of migrants waited 20 years until they committed crime? And why has crime falled since the 80s when that has been the time of highest migration levels in the post-war period? Edited by serial thriller (20 Feb 2020 2.06pm) If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 20 Feb 20 2.02pm

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The Daily Mirror? That constitutes your evidence?

Did you even read the article? It focuses on EU crime...which isn't significant, and then at the end actually implies the truth and where the real problem comes from.

Here is some historical data.

[Link]

Look at the jump from around 1965.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Feb 2020 1.49pm)

Ok, there was a spike in the 60s. But does this correlate to increasing levels of migration?

Well actually migration jumped post-war. That was when the biggest influx of migrants arrived, and the graph on this handy link shows that the next big wave was in the 70s after our entry in to the EU, which has seen a staggered rise in migration as other countries joined: [Link]

So in the 60s, migration actually flatlined. So what is your suggestion, that the 40s generation of migrants waited 20 years until they committed crime? And why has crime falled since the 80s when that has been the time of highest migration levels in the post-war period?

Edited by serial thriller (20 Feb 2020 2.06pm)

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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Stirlingsays 20 Feb 20 2.07pm
Originally posted by DanH This is quite rich coming from one of PJW’s disciples. Accurately analysing data and drawing accurate conclusions within a small margin of error is very, very difficult. Quoting two stats and claiming they are linked isn’t enough. Not enough for someone who doesn't want to believe reality no. That statistical rise goes on for decades, it's not 'two stats' and it's not a 'small margin of error'. There are also plenty of similar statistics from the US that you can track to demographic change. You can check out the crime rates in different countries with different demographic compositions. Go back to your Stormzy records and come back when you are serious. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Feb 20 2.07pm

Originally posted by DanH

This is quite rich coming from one of PJW’s disciples. Accurately analysing data and drawing accurate conclusions within a small margin of error is very, very difficult. Quoting two stats and claiming they are linked isn’t enough.

Not enough for someone who doesn't want to believe reality no. That statistical rise goes on for decades, it's not 'two stats' and it's not a 'small margin of error'.

There are also plenty of similar statistics from the US that you can track to demographic change. You can check out the crime rates in different countries with different demographic compositions.

Go back to your Stormzy records and come back when you are serious.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 20 Feb 20 2.16pm
Originally posted by serial thriller Ok, there was a spike in the 60s. But does this correlate to increasing levels of migration? It's hardly going to be contributed to a increase in rail enthusiasts is it? It correlates to the rise in numbers, as the children of the first wave become old enough to commit crime that's going to have its affect. Originally posted by serial thriller Well actually migration jumped post-war. That was when the biggest influx of migrants arrived, and the graph on this handy link shows that the next big wave was in the 70s after our entry in to the EU, which has seen a staggered rise in migration as other countries joined: [Link] The first wave of immigrants are going to be adults who are motivated to do well, were mostly employed and their percentage of the population was very small compared to now. Studies into EU crime are quite common....this seems to have been quite common because lefty academics are keen to suggest that immigration is positive....but they downplay or ignore non EU immigration....and most don't touch the crime numbers from specific nationalities. Originally posted by serial thriller So in the 60s, migration actually flatlined. So what is your suggestion, that the 40s generation of migrants waited 20 years until they committed crime? And why has crime falled since the 80s when that has been the time of highest migration levels in the post-war period? Are you serious? Immigrants have children, besides the population influx didn't stop and every year a new set of children became adults. The statistics are there for all to see. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Feb 2020 2.27pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Feb 20 2.16pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

Ok, there was a spike in the 60s. But does this correlate to increasing levels of migration?

It's hardly going to be contributed to a increase in rail enthusiasts is it?

It correlates to the rise in numbers, as the children of the first wave become old enough to commit crime that's going to have its affect.

Originally posted by serial thriller

The first wave of immigrants are going to be adults who are motivated to do well, were mostly employed and their percentage of the population was very small compared to now.

Studies into EU crime are quite common....this seems to have been quite common because lefty academics are keen to suggest that immigration is positive....but they downplay or ignore non EU immigration....and most don't touch the crime numbers from specific nationalities.

Originally posted by serial thriller

Are you serious? Immigrants have children, besides the population influx didn't stop and every year a new set of children became adults.

The statistics are there for all to see.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Feb 2020 2.27pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Feb 20 2.31pm
Saying 'the stats are there for all to See' doesn't mask your inability to provide any. Analysing data is all about critically examining variables. Crime has risen in the past 5 years, having been reducing per capita for nearly 40. Is this because of Immigration? Well, migration numbers have actually fallen in the past 5 years in contrast to how they've been rising since the 90s. However, in the past 10 years we have seen an unprecedented decline in living standards. It is my argument that all of these things are linked: 2008 caused a rise in poverty, which leads to a rise in crime. But it also led to a rise in xenophobia as people were looking for reasons why life was getting worse, and the ruling party, led by a billionaire funded tabloid press, were happy to use immigrants as a scapegoat rather than persecute the financial sector. Now you aware free to disagree with that, but provide the data you claim to cherish so much. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 20 Feb 20 2.31pm

Saying 'the stats are there for all to See' doesn't mask your inability to provide any.

Analysing data is all about critically examining variables. Crime has risen in the past 5 years, having been reducing per capita for nearly 40. Is this because of Immigration? Well, migration numbers have actually fallen in the past 5 years in contrast to how they've been rising since the 90s. However, in the past 10 years we have seen an unprecedented decline in living standards.

It is my argument that all of these things are linked: 2008 caused a rise in poverty, which leads to a rise in crime. But it also led to a rise in xenophobia as people were looking for reasons why life was getting worse, and the ruling party, led by a billionaire funded tabloid press, were happy to use immigrants as a scapegoat rather than persecute the financial sector.

Now you aware free to disagree with that, but provide the data you claim to cherish so much.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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Stirlingsays 20 Feb 20 2.51pm
Originally posted by serial thriller Saying 'the stats are there for all to See' doesn't mask your inability to provide any. Analysing data is all about critically examining variables. Crime has risen in the past 5 years, having been reducing per capita for nearly 40. Is this because of Immigration? Well, migration numbers have actually fallen in the past 5 years in contrast to how they've been rising since the 90s. However, in the past 10 years we have seen an unprecedented decline in living standards. It is my argument that all of these things are linked: 2008 caused a rise in poverty, which leads to a rise in crime. But it also led to a rise in xenophobia as people were looking for reasons why life was getting worse, and the ruling party, led by a billionaire funded tabloid press, were happy to use immigrants as a scapegoat rather than persecute the financial sector. Now you aware free to disagree with that, but provide the data you claim to cherish so much. I've provided the historical data that was available till 2002. There are plenty of other forms of evidence that I spoke of in my post to Dan. You, I might add, provided a link to a Daily Mirror article, that seemingly you didn't even read. Your post here is pure obfuscation that seeks to jump to lots of diverging points that may or may not be related. My point is a reality and it's to be found in the statisitcs by those who are honest and are interested in truth. You don't appear to be either of those. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Feb 20 2.51pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

Saying 'the stats are there for all to See' doesn't mask your inability to provide any.

Now you aware free to disagree with that, but provide the data you claim to cherish so much.

I've provided the historical data that was available till 2002. There are plenty of other forms of evidence that I spoke of in my post to Dan.

You, I might add, provided a link to a Daily Mirror article, that seemingly you didn't even read.

Your post here is pure obfuscation that seeks to jump to lots of diverging points that may or may not be related.

My point is a reality and it's to be found in the statisitcs by those who are honest and are interested in truth.

You don't appear to be either of those.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Feb 20 2.55pm
Originally posted by serial thriller Saying 'the stats are there for all to See' doesn't mask your inability to provide any. Analysing data is all about critically examining variables. Crime has risen in the past 5 years, having been reducing per capita for nearly 40. Is this because of Immigration? Well, migration numbers have actually fallen in the past 5 years in contrast to how they've been rising since the 90s. However, in the past 10 years we have seen an unprecedented decline in living standards. It is my argument that all of these things are linked: 2008 caused a rise in poverty, which leads to a rise in crime. But it also led to a rise in xenophobia as people were looking for reasons why life was getting worse, and the ruling party, led by a billionaire funded tabloid press, were happy to use immigrants as a scapegoat rather than persecute the financial sector. Now you aware free to disagree with that, but provide the data you claim to cherish so much. I think the link between poverty and crime is true and much research demonstrates it. For instance prisoners are likely to come from lower socio-economic backgrounds. The difficulty then becomes that there are no real ways to demonstrate why people are poor, or remain poor and why certain demographics even, dare I say, people from certain racial backgrounds remain in poverty and then are more likely to commit crime. I refuse to blame this on constitutional racism, I genuinely believe that there is a choice when raising children and that those same children can choose not to join gangs etc. This still begs the question as to what is driving young black people in London to stab each other. It is not simply poverty - and I believe you will agree that it is not. It is a multitude of reasons. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Feb 20 2.55pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

Saying 'the stats are there for all to See' doesn't mask your inability to provide any.

Now you aware free to disagree with that, but provide the data you claim to cherish so much.

I think the link between poverty and crime is true and much research demonstrates it. For instance prisoners are likely to come from lower socio-economic backgrounds.
The difficulty then becomes that there are no real ways to demonstrate why people are poor, or remain poor and why certain demographics even, dare I say, people from certain racial backgrounds remain in poverty and then are more likely to commit crime.
I refuse to blame this on constitutional racism, I genuinely believe that there is a choice when raising children and that those same children can choose not to join gangs etc. This still begs the question as to what is driving young black people in London to stab each other. It is not simply poverty - and I believe you will agree that it is not. It is a multitude of reasons.

Red and Blue Army!

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serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Feb 20 3.07pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I've provided the historical data that was available till 2002. There are plenty of other forms of evidence that I spoke of in my post to Dan. You, I might add, provided a link to a Daily Mirror article, that seemingly you didn't even read. Your post here is pure obfuscation that seeks to jump to lots of diverging points that may or may not be related. My point is a reality and it's to be found in the statisitcs by those who are honest and are interested in truth. You don't appear to be either of those. FFS you can't keep saying this and not providing anything other than general crime statistics with no cross reference to migration levels. Imagine if I walked in to a job interview and said I had all the qualifications to do the job, but provided no references. Surely it would be reasonable for the employers to ask to see them? So once again I ask, politely, to see the figures behind your attempts to demonise migrant communities as bringing crime. And the Mirror article is quoting an academic study which looks at migration and crime in the last 40 years and sees no correlation. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 20 Feb 20 3.07pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I've provided the historical data that was available till 2002. There are plenty of other forms of evidence that I spoke of in my post to Dan.

You, I might add, provided a link to a Daily Mirror article, that seemingly you didn't even read.

Your post here is pure obfuscation that seeks to jump to lots of diverging points that may or may not be related.

My point is a reality and it's to be found in the statisitcs by those who are honest and are interested in truth.

You don't appear to be either of those.

FFS you can't keep saying this and not providing anything other than general crime statistics with no cross reference to migration levels.

Imagine if I walked in to a job interview and said I had all the qualifications to do the job, but provided no references. Surely it would be reasonable for the employers to ask to see them?

So once again I ask, politely, to see the figures behind your attempts to demonise migrant communities as bringing crime.

And the Mirror article is quoting an academic study which looks at migration and crime in the last 40 years and sees no correlation.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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Stirlingsays 20 Feb 20 3.40pm
Originally posted by serial thriller FFS you can't keep saying this and not providing anything other than general crime statistics with no cross reference to migration levels. Imagine if I walked in to a job interview and said I had all the qualifications to do the job, but provided no references. Surely it would be reasonable for the employers to ask to see them? So once again I ask, politely, to see the figures behind your attempts to demonise migrant communities as bringing crime. And the Mirror article is quoting an academic study which looks at migration and crime in the last 40 years and sees no correlation. As previously stated, EU European immigration isn't related to a significant increase in crime. That is what that article highlighted in that study. Ok, here is a link to a graph showing the percentage of foreign born people in the UK. Now lets relate to the historical date on homicides I showed you.....It's a kind of crime that's harder to dramatically affect by policing and so is more accurately going to reflect changing demographics. 1901 - 341 Population 41 million Foreign born 1.4% 1911 - 291 1921 - 251 1931 - 287 1941 - 315 1951 - 328 Population 50 million.......You notice here that even though the population has increased the number of homicides is roughly the same. 1961 - 265......Now it's from 1965 where we start to see the large increases. 1971 - 459 1981 - 559 1991 - 725 2001 - 850 Population 58 million....Foreign born and descendants of foreign born not available....but it's probably around 25 percent. 2011 - 63 million....but I don't have the crime stat. The increase maps quite well onto the increase in the percentage of foreign born into the country. With more time and interest I could find a lot more stuff.....but I can't be bothered to argue egg sucking with a denialist. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Feb 2020 3.54pm) Attachment: foreign born.JPG (55.11Kb) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Feb 20 3.40pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

FFS you can't keep saying this and not providing anything other than general crime statistics with no cross reference to migration levels.

Imagine if I walked in to a job interview and said I had all the qualifications to do the job, but provided no references. Surely it would be reasonable for the employers to ask to see them?

So once again I ask, politely, to see the figures behind your attempts to demonise migrant communities as bringing crime.

And the Mirror article is quoting an academic study which looks at migration and crime in the last 40 years and sees no correlation.

As previously stated, EU European immigration isn't related to a significant increase in crime. That is what that article highlighted in that study.

Ok, here is a link to a graph showing the percentage of foreign born people in the UK.

Now lets relate to the historical date on homicides I showed you.....It's a kind of crime that's harder to dramatically affect by policing and so is more accurately going to reflect changing demographics.

1901 - 341 Population 41 million Foreign born 1.4%
1911 - 291
1921 - 251
1931 - 287
1941 - 315
1951 - 328 Population 50 million.......You notice here that even though the population has increased the number of homicides is roughly the same.

1961 - 265......Now it's from 1965 where we start to see the large increases.
1971 - 459
1981 - 559
1991 - 725
2001 - 850 Population 58 million....Foreign born and descendants of foreign born not available....but it's probably around 25 percent.

2011 - 63 million....but I don't have the crime stat.

The increase maps quite well onto the increase in the percentage of foreign born into the country. With more time and interest I could find a lot more stuff.....but I can't be bothered to argue egg sucking with a denialist.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Feb 2020 3.54pm)

Attachment: foreign born.JPG (55.11Kb)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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