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Badger11 Beckenham 21 Jul 19 8.01am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I just love the way that American slang is used to justify these opinions. What does being "woke" imply anyway. Apparently it implies "a perceived awareness of social and racial justice". Now for me that's apolitical! You can be aware of such things whatever your politics. Maybe if you are suffering from social or racial injustice then you will be more "woke" to it but that doesn't imply anything about your political opinions. If movie Corporations decide to include stories which deal with injustice then that's because people will pay good money to see them. It's called a commercial judgement. It has nothing to do with any desire to "even out" the type of movies being made just because the USA is currently politically divided. Most of the movies are made with international markets in mind anyway but even if they were solely reliant on the US market the decisions on content would still be totally objective. The only decision that matters to a commercially orientated business is what generates the most income. Anyone trying to tell you anything different cannot have worked in commerce. Maybe they were a teacher! Edited by Wisbech Eagle (21 Jul 2019 7.28am) I hate to say this bit I agree with Wisbech. TV and movies are commercial if the public don't like it they will vote with their feet. Right now pick an unknown actor with a good figure put them in a silly fancy dress costume and the movie makes millions. I don't see the attraction but then I am not the target audience. There is definitely a left wing bias in Hollywood amongst the luvvies but the people who sanction the money are hard nosed business men. By the way the argument also works the other way. when the luvvies say that black actors should have more lead roles or more feminist movies should be made the answer is they will if the public want to see them. A couple of years ago a movie called Suffragette was made. It was written and direct by women starred women had a good cast and the critics fell over themselves to praise it. The public pretty much ignored it. If it had been as big a success as the fancy dress movies Hollywood would be making female led movies dealing with female issues every week. The fault lies not with the movie makes but the public. Don't like the politics of the movie then don't watch it Hollywood will soon catch on. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 21 Jul 19 8.01am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I just love the way that American slang is used to justify these opinions.

What does being "woke" imply anyway. Apparently it implies "a perceived awareness of social and racial justice". Now for me that's apolitical! You can be aware of such things whatever your politics. Maybe if you are suffering from social or racial injustice then you will be more "woke" to it but that doesn't imply anything about your political opinions.

If movie Corporations decide to include stories which deal with injustice then that's because people will pay good money to see them. It's called a commercial judgement.

It has nothing to do with any desire to "even out" the type of movies being made just because the USA is currently politically divided. Most of the movies are made with international markets in mind anyway but even if they were solely reliant on the US market the decisions on content would still be totally objective. The only decision that matters to a commercially orientated business is what generates the most income. Anyone trying to tell you anything different cannot have worked in commerce. Maybe they were a teacher!

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (21 Jul 2019 7.28am)

I hate to say this bit I agree with Wisbech. TV and movies are commercial if the public don't like it they will vote with their feet.

Right now pick an unknown actor with a good figure put them in a silly fancy dress costume and the movie makes millions. I don't see the attraction but then I am not the target audience.

There is definitely a left wing bias in Hollywood amongst the luvvies but the people who sanction the money are hard nosed business men.

By the way the argument also works the other way. when the luvvies say that black actors should have more lead roles or more feminist movies should be made the answer is they will if the public want to see them.

A couple of years ago a movie called Suffragette was made. It was written and direct by women starred women had a good cast and the critics fell over themselves to praise it.

The public pretty much ignored it. If it had been as big a success as the fancy dress movies Hollywood would be making female led movies dealing with female issues every week.

The fault lies not with the movie makes but the public. Don't like the politics of the movie then don't watch it Hollywood will soon catch on.

One more point

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Midlands Eagle 21 Jul 19 9.03am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays What conservative politics were in 'Die Hard' movies anyway? John McClane sorted out the problems himself rather than relying on the state
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Midlands Eagle

21 Jul 19 9.03am

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

What conservative politics were in 'Die Hard' movies anyway?

John McClane sorted out the problems himself rather than relying on the state

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Hrolf The Ganger 21 Jul 19 10.53am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle In any capitalistic system, of which the USA is the prime example, every corporation that is publicly owned and not controlled by an individual or group of like minded people, is bound to try to increase shareholder value. That's their mission. In the movie business you make money by making successful movies and not by concerning yourself whether any of the politics involved in the narrative is of the left or right. If a Director, whatever his personal political beliefs, makes successful movies then he will get the gigs. The Hollywood industry could be completely full of those who are themselves Democrats. People in the arts generally tend towards left of centre views. That though is not the least bit relevant other than in right wing minds. If, and it's a very big if because I don't believe it myself, the movies do have more left wing attitudes than right being shown then the only reason must be that such movies make more money because they are more popular. I see plenty of evidence of right wing attitudes myself. It has nothing to do with the politics of the employees of the Corporations. They just write the scripts, direct the movies and act in them. Corporations are not fools. Nor will their shareholders allow them to be. The primary motives at Hollywood film companies might not be political per se, but one has to ask one's self why film producers would make films with a particular message. The answer is that recent generations have been raised on a diet of leftist/liberal propaganda through education and various media and are therefore easy meat for corporations who wish to profit from that. It can become a self perpetuating process. I also believe that the input of left wing/liberal artists in any production will influence the content. The source material will have certain prejudices and bias to a greater or lesser degree. Your default position is to dismiss everything that does not fit with your myopic view of the world. Individuals will always influence the bigger picture and everyone has prejudices.
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Hrolf The Ganger

21 Jul 19 10.53am

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

In any capitalistic system, of which the USA is the prime example, every corporation that is publicly owned and not controlled by an individual or group of like minded people, is bound to try to increase shareholder value. That's their mission.

In the movie business you make money by making successful movies and not by concerning yourself whether any of the politics involved in the narrative is of the left or right.

If a Director, whatever his personal political beliefs, makes successful movies then he will get the gigs. The Hollywood industry could be completely full of those who are themselves Democrats. People in the arts generally tend towards left of centre views. That though is not the least bit relevant other than in right wing minds.

If, and it's a very big if because I don't believe it myself, the movies do have more left wing attitudes than right being shown then the only reason must be that such movies make more money because they are more popular. I see plenty of evidence of right wing attitudes myself. It has nothing to do with the politics of the employees of the Corporations. They just write the scripts, direct the movies and act in them. Corporations are not fools. Nor will their shareholders allow them to be.

The primary motives at Hollywood film companies might not be political per se, but one has to ask one's self why film producers would make films with a particular message.
The answer is that recent generations have been raised on a diet of leftist/liberal propaganda through education and various media and are therefore easy meat for corporations who wish to profit from that. It can become a self perpetuating process.

I also believe that the input of left wing/liberal artists in any production will influence the content.

The source material will have certain prejudices and bias to a greater or lesser degree.

Your default position is to dismiss everything that does not fit with your myopic view of the world.
Individuals will always influence the bigger picture and everyone has prejudices.

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Stirlingsays 21 Jul 19 11.30am
Originally posted by Badger11 I hate to say this bit I agree with Wisbech. TV and movies are commercial if the public don't like it they will vote with their feet. They do, but it's more complicated than that....By saying that 'if the public don't like it' and so on....that's a bit like saying, if you don't like immigration policies why are you still voting?....Sure, some won't vote but for the masses show me the alternative options? Not going out isn't a great alternative for the young when these might be minor irritations. Originally posted by Badger11 There is definitely a left wing bias in Hollywood amongst the luvvies but the people who sanction the money are hard nosed business men. Mmmm....Most movies don't make money....If this 'hard nosed' concept was a reality most movies wouldn't get made. While studios are certainly under pressure you have to factor in the massive draw that the movie industry has Originally posted by Badger11 By the way the argument also works the other way. when the luvvies say that black actors should have more lead roles or more feminist movies should be made the answer is they will if the public want to see them. A couple of years ago a movie called Suffragette was made. It was written and direct by women starred women had a good cast and the critics fell over themselves to praise it. The public pretty much ignored it. If it had been as big a success as the fancy dress movies Hollywood would be making female led movies dealing with female issues every week. The fault lies not with the movie makes but the public. Don't like the politics of the movie then don't watch it Hollywood will soon catch on. Well the public have been going less and less....but the industry can deflect by blaming other causes, which will also be true and ignore the 'woke' affect...Also new markets like China are available for the big name movies which helps significantly....I think you have to address the fact that Hollywood isn't purely financially driven.....the people within an industry define it. Look at Game of Thrones......It became successful and had very little feminism within it. Because that just isn't the nature of the writer.....Yet once it had its audience look how they started to slowly incorporate more and more feminism within the TV adaptation. That same....'we have them'....lets introduce social commentary is what is happening with Bond and all the big franchises It may be very poor long term strategy but all the same, we can see it happening before our eyes. Still don't believe me? Look at the comic industry.....that went 'woke' over a decade ago....sales dropped massively. Most comics don't make a profit. Yet the backers like Marvel still back them despite the losses because they make money via the movie industry which the teens see....In the movies they take well established characters and get away with as much left wing stuff as they think the market will bare... and the activists still churn out these comics despite the losses. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jul 2019 11.52am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Jul 19 11.30am

Originally posted by Badger11

I hate to say this bit I agree with Wisbech. TV and movies are commercial if the public don't like it they will vote with their feet.

They do, but it's more complicated than that....By saying that 'if the public don't like it' and so on....that's a bit like saying, if you don't like immigration policies why are you still voting?....Sure, some won't vote but for the masses show me the alternative options?

Not going out isn't a great alternative for the young when these might be minor irritations.

Originally posted by Badger11

There is definitely a left wing bias in Hollywood amongst the luvvies but the people who sanction the money are hard nosed business men.

Mmmm....Most movies don't make money....If this 'hard nosed' concept was a reality most movies wouldn't get made. While studios are certainly under pressure you have to factor in the massive draw that the movie industry has

Originally posted by Badger11

A couple of years ago a movie called Suffragette was made. It was written and direct by women starred women had a good cast and the critics fell over themselves to praise it.

The public pretty much ignored it. If it had been as big a success as the fancy dress movies Hollywood would be making female led movies dealing with female issues every week.

The fault lies not with the movie makes but the public. Don't like the politics of the movie then don't watch it Hollywood will soon catch on.

Well the public have been going less and less....but the industry can deflect by blaming other causes, which will also be true and ignore the 'woke' affect...Also new markets like China are available for the big name movies which helps significantly....I think you have to address the fact that Hollywood isn't purely financially driven.....the people within an industry define it.

Look at Game of Thrones......It became successful and had very little feminism within it. Because that just isn't the nature of the writer.....Yet once it had its audience look how they started to slowly incorporate more and more feminism within the TV adaptation.

That same....'we have them'....lets introduce social commentary is what is happening with Bond and all the big franchises It may be very poor long term strategy but all the same, we can see it happening before our eyes.

Still don't believe me? Look at the comic industry.....that went 'woke' over a decade ago....sales dropped massively. Most comics don't make a profit. Yet the backers like Marvel still back them despite the losses because they make money via the movie industry which the teens see....In the movies they take well established characters and get away with as much left wing stuff as they think the market will bare... and the activists still churn out these comics despite the losses.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jul 2019 11.52am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Beanyboysmd 21 Jul 19 1.20pm
So I am a lefty and make stuff on YouTube so I've watched a lot of different people. But if you are on the right and want gaming and movie news with a right wing slant then "thequartering" is pretty good. I watch him occasionally if I don't get why people are outraged by current events.
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Beanyboysmd

21 Jul 19 1.20pm

So I am a lefty and make stuff on YouTube so I've watched a lot of different people. But if you are on the right and want gaming and movie news with a right wing slant then "thequartering" is pretty good. I watch him occasionally if I don't get why people are outraged by current events.

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Stirlingsays 21 Jul 19 1.31pm
Originally posted by Beanyboysmd So I am a lefty and make stuff on YouTube so I've watched a lot of different people. But if you are on the right and want gaming and movie news with a right wing slant then "thequartering" is pretty good. I watch him occasionally if I don't get why people are outraged by current events. Yep, I watch his stuff occasionally. When it comes to Youtube the right wing are definitely well catered to as males mainly comprise its audience and an industry can't control who makes videos like it can who it employs.....However Youtube itself is involved in censoring and defunding of conservatives there.....its policies now even affect non conservatives with its ridiculous advertising war. And the Quartering himself has certainly made videos on how Youtube (Google) treats its content creators. You may be a lefty but it's good that you are creating on Youtube....more power to you. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jul 2019 1.36pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Jul 19 1.31pm

Originally posted by Beanyboysmd

Yep, I watch his stuff occasionally.

When it comes to Youtube the right wing are definitely well catered to as males mainly comprise its audience and an industry can't control who makes videos like it can who it employs.....However Youtube itself is involved in censoring and defunding of conservatives there.....its policies now even affect non conservatives with its ridiculous advertising war.

And the Quartering himself has certainly made videos on how Youtube (Google) treats its content creators.

You may be a lefty but it's good that you are creating on Youtube....more power to you.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jul 2019 1.36pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Jul 19 3.22pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger The primary motives at Hollywood film companies might not be political per se, but one has to ask one's self why film producers would make films with a particular message. The answer is that recent generations have been raised on a diet of leftist/liberal propaganda through education and various media and are therefore easy meat for corporations who wish to profit from that. It can become a self perpetuating process. I also believe that the input of left wing/liberal artists in any production will influence the content. The source material will have certain prejudices and bias to a greater or lesser degree. Your default position is to dismiss everything that does not fit with your myopic view of the world. Individuals will always influence the bigger picture and everyone has prejudices. You don't think that there might be just a little bit of right wing bias creeping into that assertion? I just love the way that the right state their opinion as fact and dismiss all other as propaganda, when all the evidence is that all the propaganda is actually coming from their side in the age of Trump. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 21 Jul 19 3.22pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The primary motives at Hollywood film companies might not be political per se, but one has to ask one's self why film producers would make films with a particular message.
The answer is that recent generations have been raised on a diet of leftist/liberal propaganda through education and various media and are therefore easy meat for corporations who wish to profit from that. It can become a self perpetuating process.

I also believe that the input of left wing/liberal artists in any production will influence the content.

The source material will have certain prejudices and bias to a greater or lesser degree.

Your default position is to dismiss everything that does not fit with your myopic view of the world.
Individuals will always influence the bigger picture and everyone has prejudices.

You don't think that there might be just a little bit of right wing bias creeping into that assertion?

I just love the way that the right state their opinion as fact and dismiss all other as propaganda, when all the evidence is that all the propaganda is actually coming from their side in the age of Trump.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Badger11 Beckenham 21 Jul 19 3.35pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Well the public have been going less and less....but the industry can deflect by blaming other causes, which will also be true and ignore the 'woke' affect...Also new markets like China are available for the big name movies which helps significantly....I think you have to address the fact that Hollywood isn't purely financially driven.....the people within an industry define it. Look at Game of Thrones......It became successful and had very little feminism within it. Because that just isn't the nature of the writer.....Yet once it had its audience look how they started to slowly incorporate more and more feminism within the TV adaptation. That same....'we have them'....lets introduce social commentary is what is happening with Bond and all the big franchises It may be very poor long term strategy but all the same, we can see it happening before our eyes. Still don't believe me? Look at the comic industry.....that went 'woke' over a decade ago....sales dropped massively. Most comics don't make a profit. Yet the backers like Marvel still back them despite the losses because they make money via the movie industry which the teens see....In the movies they take well established characters and get away with as much left wing stuff as they think the market will bare... and the activists still churn out these comics despite the losses. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jul 2019 11.52am) Stirlingsays Some good points but I still say the public are not forced to wish this rubbish if they don't want to. My favourite sitcom is on 5* Last Man Standing. Tim Allen is a right wing Christian gun toting conservative who hates Obama. It ran for 6 years on ABC they pulled it because they claimed it was too expensive to make! not sure about that anyway its now on Fox. It's controversial in the US for that reason although no one complains about the hundreds of pro democratic shows. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 21 Jul 19 3.35pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jul 2019 11.52am)

Stirlingsays
Some good points but I still say the public are not forced to wish this rubbish if they don't want to.

My favourite sitcom is on 5* Last Man Standing. Tim Allen is a right wing Christian gun toting conservative who hates Obama. It ran for 6 years on ABC they pulled it because they claimed it was too expensive to make! not sure about that anyway its now on Fox.

It's controversial in the US for that reason although no one complains about the hundreds of pro democratic shows.

One more point

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Teddy Eagle 21 Jul 19 3.36pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You don't think that there might be just a little bit of right wing bias creeping into that assertion? I just love the way that the right state their opinion as fact and dismiss all other as propaganda, when all the evidence is that all the propaganda is actually coming from their side in the age of Trump. Not in Hollywood. Apart from Jon Voight there aren’t many pro-Trump people there. I just love the way those who profess to be on left present their opinion as morally superior. No, Wisbech, not you. You are a far more evolved being who’s objectivity puts you above such petty considerations.
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Teddy Eagle

21 Jul 19 3.36pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You don't think that there might be just a little bit of right wing bias creeping into that assertion?

Not in Hollywood. Apart from Jon Voight there aren’t many pro-Trump people there.
I just love the way those who profess to be on left present their opinion as morally superior.
No, Wisbech, not you. You are a far more evolved being who’s objectivity puts you above such petty considerations.

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Stirlingsays 21 Jul 19 3.37pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle John McClane sorted out the problems himself rather than relying on the state 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Jul 19 3.37pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

John McClane sorted out the problems himself rather than relying on the state

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 21 Jul 19 3.42pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Stirlingsays Some good points but I still say the public are not forced to wish this rubbish if they don't want to. My favourite sitcom is on 5* Last Man Standing. Tim Allen is a right wing Christian gun toting conservative who hates Obama. It ran for 6 years on ABC they pulled it because they claimed it was too expensive to make! not sure about that anyway its now on Fox. It's controversial in the US for that reason although no one complains about the hundreds of pro democratic shows. Yep all true, I was just expanding arguments I suppose. I think and hope you are right that Hollywood will become less political and more politically balanced if only for the economic purposes.....but I don't see any evidence so far....You would think the early success of Game of Thrones would mean something but....they can't help themselves. It's no accident that the Game of Thrones writer wasn't part of the Hollywood system. What happened to Tim Allen was outrageous but we have all grown use to it nowadays....it's the nature of these people. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jul 2019 3.43pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Jul 19 3.42pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Stirlingsays
Some good points but I still say the public are not forced to wish this rubbish if they don't want to.

It's controversial in the US for that reason although no one complains about the hundreds of pro democratic shows.

Yep all true, I was just expanding arguments I suppose.

I think and hope you are right that Hollywood will become less political and more politically balanced if only for the economic purposes.....but I don't see any evidence so far....You would think the early success of Game of Thrones would mean something but....they can't help themselves.

It's no accident that the Game of Thrones writer wasn't part of the Hollywood system.

What happened to Tim Allen was outrageous but we have all grown use to it nowadays....it's the nature of these people.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jul 2019 3.43pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Jul 19 3.45pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Not in Hollywood. Apart from Jon Voight there aren’t many pro-Trump people there. I just love the way those who profess to be on left present their opinion as morally superior. No, Wisbech, not you. You are a far more evolved being who’s objectivity puts you above such petty considerations. I wasn't addressing the situation in Hollywood but out in the real world. As I am far from "on the left" I am very glad that you recognise that your assertion doesn't apply to me. I just love the way that those on the right assume that anyone who criticises them must belong on the left. My natural home is centre right. I have no time at all for left wing politics. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 21 Jul 19 3.45pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

I wasn't addressing the situation in Hollywood but out in the real world.

As I am far from "on the left" I am very glad that you recognise that your assertion doesn't apply to me. I just love the way that those on the right assume that anyone who criticises them must belong on the left. My natural home is centre right. I have no time at all for left wing politics.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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