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David Lammy - "White Saviours"

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Invalid user 2019 28 Feb 19 3.24pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle You could have always posted it yourself. It was just a comment on knowing it wouldn't be here and that it wouldn't fit. These threads are at their core not really about the individual stories at hand, they are fuel to the fire, geeing up along specific racial lines, they're an 'in'. Ultimately, nothing I can say is going to change anyone's views, so creating threads that few will feel any connection to and that is against the grain of what is posted is pointless. Threads are bigger statements than posts, they are the culture. It's better to chime in buffet style, than to offer up a main meal that people will keep getting sent back to the kitchen .
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Invalid user 2019

28 Feb 19 3.24pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

You could have always posted it yourself.

It was just a comment on knowing it wouldn't be here and that it wouldn't fit. These threads are at their core not really about the individual stories at hand, they are fuel to the fire, geeing up along specific racial lines, they're an 'in'.

Ultimately, nothing I can say is going to change anyone's views, so creating threads that few will feel any connection to and that is against the grain of what is posted is pointless. Threads are bigger statements than posts, they are the culture. It's better to chime in buffet style, than to offer up a main meal that people will keep getting sent back to the kitchen .

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Midlands Eagle 28 Feb 19 3.34pm
Originally posted by dollardays It was just a comment on knowing it wouldn't be here and that it wouldn't fit. These threads are at their core not really about the individual stories at hand, they are fuel to the fire, geeing up along specific racial lines, they're an 'in'. There is a further possibility. I intended to start a thread about David Lammy having listened to the news in the car this morning but I forgot. I could well have thought of starting a thread about the "no blacks being sprayed onto the doors of Salford flats" except that I knew nothing about it and when I watched the one o'clock news on BBC it wasn't mentioned there either
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Midlands Eagle

28 Feb 19 3.34pm

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Originally posted by dollardays

There is a further possibility. I intended to start a thread about David Lammy having listened to the news in the car this morning but I forgot.

I could well have thought of starting a thread about the "no blacks being sprayed onto the doors of Salford flats" except that I knew nothing about it and when I watched the one o'clock news on BBC it wasn't mentioned there either

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Midlands Eagle 28 Feb 19 3.42pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle I could well have thought of starting a thread about the "no blacks being sprayed onto the doors of Salford flats" except that I knew nothing about it and when I watched the one o'clock news on BBC it wasn't mentioned there either I've Googled it and found the reports from last week which I didn't spot at the time. It's disgusting behaviour and I hope that the culprit gets a lengthy custodial sentence where I'm sure that he will be well treated by the black inmates
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Midlands Eagle

28 Feb 19 3.42pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I've Googled it and found the reports from last week which I didn't spot at the time.

It's disgusting behaviour and I hope that the culprit gets a lengthy custodial sentence where I'm sure that he will be well treated by the black inmates

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Lyons550 Shirley 28 Feb 19 3.43pm
Originally posted by dollardays Boris Johnson of 'piccaninnies' and 'watermelom smile' fame? He's no stranger to unfortunate racial slants and slurs, and so is a bad example to use. This story is the front page of the BBC website so it's hardly viewed as a free pass for Lammy, nor should it be. In life I think when you do a good thing, you deserve to be credited as such. I can understand why people roll eyes at celebrities heading off to the third world, but I don't question how genuine Dooley's concern is or see it as fair game to turn it into a ridiculous 'whiteness' issue and racist attack on her. Her response to it was classy. It deal with the individual and his comments to her. It wasn't used to push cheap racial points in return or to gee people up. That's partly the trouble here. When I saw this article I knew it would get posted here, and when I saw the story about 'no blacks' being sprayed onto the doors of Salford flats I knew it absolutely wouldn't. No doubt there's a largely black forum somewhere where people are firing each other up about that in the same way. Neither take is particularly healthy, but at least Dooley's dignified response was. 1) absolutely fair point; just the first person to pop in my head. Change it for Michael Poritillo instead if you prefer 2) Two completely diff sides of the spectrum. the first is CLEARLY racist and didnt need a post to raise the issue; the 2nd could be perceived as such but because its the other way round by in large is accepted by the majority (myself included) as just comments made by someone with an axe to grind. The reason for posting it wasnt to inflame any issue other than highlighting the hypocrisy of those shouting 'racist' at the slightest thing White on Black and then not doing so when similar instances happen the other way round. But I guess it boils down to our own preconceptions, beliefs etc that makes two people see things entirely differently or use the colour of ones skin on one hand to highlight and promote division and in the next breath potentially commit a similar offence. All a bit ironic if you ask me. So its the hypocrisy and the apparent apathy towards it I was highlighting, not the actual act. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 28 Feb 19 3.43pm

Originally posted by dollardays

Boris Johnson of 'piccaninnies' and 'watermelom smile' fame? He's no stranger to unfortunate racial slants and slurs, and so is a bad example to use.

This story is the front page of the BBC website so it's hardly viewed as a free pass for Lammy, nor should it be.

In life I think when you do a good thing, you deserve to be credited as such. I can understand why people roll eyes at celebrities heading off to the third world, but I don't question how genuine Dooley's concern is or see it as fair game to turn it into a ridiculous 'whiteness' issue and racist attack on her.

Her response to it was classy. It deal with the individual and his comments to her. It wasn't used to push cheap racial points in return or to gee people up. That's partly the trouble here. When I saw this article I knew it would get posted here, and when I saw the story about 'no blacks' being sprayed onto the doors of Salford flats I knew it absolutely wouldn't. No doubt there's a largely black forum somewhere where people are firing each other up about that in the same way. Neither take is particularly healthy, but at least Dooley's dignified response was.

1) absolutely fair point; just the first person to pop in my head. Change it for Michael Poritillo instead if you prefer

2) Two completely diff sides of the spectrum. the first is CLEARLY racist and didnt need a post to raise the issue; the 2nd could be perceived as such but because its the other way round by in large is accepted by the majority (myself included) as just comments made by someone with an axe to grind. The reason for posting it wasnt to inflame any issue other than highlighting the hypocrisy of those shouting 'racist' at the slightest thing White on Black and then not doing so when similar instances happen the other way round.

But I guess it boils down to our own preconceptions, beliefs etc that makes two people see things entirely differently or use the colour of ones skin on one hand to highlight and promote division and in the next breath potentially commit a similar offence.

All a bit ironic if you ask me. So its the hypocrisy and the apparent apathy towards it I was highlighting, not the actual act.

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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7mins In the bush 28 Feb 19 3.47pm
Lammy has to please a lot of his constituents. He is playing to the gallery. I thin the world needs more saviours, not less. Their skin pigmentation doesn't matter to me... just as long as they are doing good. Lammy wants blacks to be treated as equals... hopefully he will judge young black men in his Tottenham constituency equally against whites/Asians. Tottenham has massive problems with black gang crime, he should concentrate on that, rather than someone doing charity work abroad.
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7mins

In the bush 28 Feb 19 3.47pm

Lammy has to please a lot of his constituents. He is playing to the gallery.
I thin the world needs more saviours, not less. Their skin pigmentation doesn't matter to me... just as long as they are doing good.

Lammy wants blacks to be treated as equals... hopefully he will judge young black men in his Tottenham constituency equally against whites/Asians.

Tottenham has massive problems with black gang crime, he should concentrate on that, rather than someone doing charity work abroad.

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Mapletree Croydon 28 Feb 19 3.48pm
I get the logic David Lammy is putting forward Having worked on slum developments in India and Sri Lanka, it is undoubtedly crucial for local people to drive the agenda themselves. Aid agencies should support that but can't replace local leadership I also agree that the portrayal of Africans as victims has unintended effects. As for Stirling's concept that Africans will always be poorer because they are thicker, the mind simply boggles. Take Africans out of Africa and give them the same opportunities as others and miraculously their IQ increases to match or exceed those others. What I don't like is the implied criticism that white people trying to help are doing it for selfish reasons or are misguided. If expat people with African forebears want to take a greater role in helping Africa to develop then they should step up. I don't really see they have a greater right than white people - unless they are African born - but maybe the optics are marginally better. Don't knock 'do-gooders' or good won't get done.
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Mapletree

Croydon 28 Feb 19 3.48pm

I get the logic David Lammy is putting forward

Having worked on slum developments in India and Sri Lanka, it is undoubtedly crucial for local people to drive the agenda themselves. Aid agencies should support that but can't replace local leadership

I also agree that the portrayal of Africans as victims has unintended effects.

As for Stirling's concept that Africans will always be poorer because they are thicker, the mind simply boggles. Take Africans out of Africa and give them the same opportunities as others and miraculously their IQ increases to match or exceed those others.

What I don't like is the implied criticism that white people trying to help are doing it for selfish reasons or are misguided. If expat people with African forebears want to take a greater role in helping Africa to develop then they should step up. I don't really see they have a greater right than white people - unless they are African born - but maybe the optics are marginally better. Don't knock 'do-gooders' or good won't get done.

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Stirlingsays 28 Feb 19 3.49pm
Originally posted by 7mins Lammy has to please a lot of his constituents. He is playing to the gallery. I thin the world needs more saviours, not less. Their skin pigmentation doesn't matter to me... just as long as they are doing good. Lammy wants blacks to be treated as equals... hopefully he will judge young black men in his Tottenham constituency equally against whites/Asians. Tottenham has massive problems with black gang crime, he should concentrate on that, rather than someone doing charity work abroad. Yep, but he's got his career in the Labour party to consider. They lap this kind of thing up. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Feb 19 3.49pm

Originally posted by 7mins

Lammy wants blacks to be treated as equals... hopefully he will judge young black men in his Tottenham constituency equally against whites/Asians.

Tottenham has massive problems with black gang crime, he should concentrate on that, rather than someone doing charity work abroad.

Yep, but he's got his career in the Labour party to consider. They lap this kind of thing up.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Lyons550 Shirley 28 Feb 19 3.53pm
Originally posted by Mapletree I get the logic David Lammy is putting forward Having worked on slum developments in India and Sri Lanka, it is undoubtedly crucial for local people to drive the agenda themselves. Aid agencies should support that but can't replace local leadership I also agree that the portrayal of Africans as victims has unintended effects. As for Stirling's concept that Africans will always be poorer because they are thicker, the mind simply boggles. Take Africans out of Africa and give them the same opportunities as others and miraculously their IQ increases to match or exceed those others. What I don't like is the implied criticism that white people trying to help are doing it for selfish reasons or are misguided. If expat people with African forebears want to take a greater role in helping Africa to develop then they should step up. I don't really see they have a greater right than white people - unless they are African born - but maybe the optics are marginally better. Don't knock 'do-gooders' or good won't get done. I think this is the crux of the issue..doing a good deed, helping others is a noble thing to do. regardless of who it is or why they're choosing to do it (unless its ultimately to exploit the person they're allegedly helping). If we all did just ONE good thing a day the world would be a better place for it. Skin Colour, Gender, sexuality shouldn't matter in the slightest. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 28 Feb 19 3.53pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

I get the logic David Lammy is putting forward

I also agree that the portrayal of Africans as victims has unintended effects.

I think this is the crux of the issue..doing a good deed, helping others is a noble thing to do. regardless of who it is or why they're choosing to do it (unless its ultimately to exploit the person they're allegedly helping).

If we all did just ONE good thing a day the world would be a better place for it. Skin Colour, Gender, sexuality shouldn't matter in the slightest.

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Stirlingsays 28 Feb 19 3.56pm
Originally posted by Mapletree As for Stirling's concept that Africans will always be poorer because they are thicker, the mind simply boggles. Take Africans out of Africa and give them the same opportunities as others and miraculously their IQ increases to match or exceed those others. Why do you say this? On the group level that's factually untrue. The research has been done in the bell curve. Besides, I didn't say those words. It is certainly true that the single biggest factor in someone's economic outcomes is their IQ but it is one of many factors. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Feb 2019 3.59pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Feb 19 3.56pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Why do you say this? On the group level that's factually untrue. The research has been done in the bell curve.

Besides, I didn't say those words. It is certainly true that the single biggest factor in someone's economic outcomes is their IQ but it is one of many factors.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Feb 2019 3.59pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Invalid user 2019 28 Feb 19 4.06pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle I've Googled it and found the reports from last week which I didn't spot at the time. It's disgusting behaviour and I hope that the culprit gets a lengthy custodial sentence where I'm sure that he will be well treated by the black inmates I'd genuinely glad you feel that way about it. Tips hat.
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Invalid user 2019

28 Feb 19 4.06pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I've Googled it and found the reports from last week which I didn't spot at the time.

It's disgusting behaviour and I hope that the culprit gets a lengthy custodial sentence where I'm sure that he will be well treated by the black inmates

I'd genuinely glad you feel that way about it. Tips hat.

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Invalid user 2019 28 Feb 19 4.10pm
Originally posted by Lyons550 1) absolutely fair point; just the first person to pop in my head. Change it for Michael Poritillo instead if you prefer 2) Two completely diff sides of the spectrum. the first is CLEARLY racist and didnt need a post to raise the issue; the 2nd could be perceived as such but because its the other way round by in large is accepted by the majority (myself included) as just comments made by someone with an axe to grind. The reason for posting it wasnt to inflame any issue other than highlighting the hypocrisy of those shouting 'racist' at the slightest thing White on Black and then not doing so when similar instances happen the other way round. But I guess it boils down to our own preconceptions, beliefs etc that makes two people see things entirely differently or use the colour of ones skin on one hand to highlight and promote division and in the next breath potentially commit a similar offence. All a bit ironic if you ask me. So its the hypocrisy and the apparent apathy towards it I was highlighting, not the actual act. You raise a good point and I was commenting more on a trend or slant but your specific contribution. There's absolutely nothing wrong with highlighting this story. Lammy indeed made a racist statement towards someone who was doing a genuinely good deed and came out of it looking like something of a nobhead.
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Invalid user 2019

28 Feb 19 4.10pm

Originally posted by Lyons550

1) absolutely fair point; just the first person to pop in my head. Change it for Michael Poritillo instead if you prefer

All a bit ironic if you ask me. So its the hypocrisy and the apparent apathy towards it I was highlighting, not the actual act.

You raise a good point and I was commenting more on a trend or slant but your specific contribution. There's absolutely nothing wrong with highlighting this story. Lammy indeed made a racist statement towards someone who was doing a genuinely good deed and came out of it looking like something of a nobhead.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 28 Feb 19 4.13pm
black boyfriend kills white girlfriend. No racial stuff here [Link] After all these years of rapes of white girls, we know there is no racism here. Black people can't be racist. "A man who gave his girlfriend drugs at a festival and filmed her as she died has been found guilty of manslaughter. Louella Fletcher-Michie, 24, was found dead in woodland near the Bestival site in Dorset in 2017. Ceon Broughton did little to help his girlfriend - the daughter of Holby City actor John Michie - for six hours as he feared breaching a suspended jail term. He filmed Ms Fletcher-Michie and branded her a "drama queen" as she lay dying, Winchester Crown Court heard." (BBC website) I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 28 Feb 19 4.13pm

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black boyfriend kills white girlfriend.

No racial stuff here

[Link]

After all these years of rapes of white girls, we know there is no racism here. Black people can't be racist.

"A man who gave his girlfriend drugs at a festival and filmed her as she died has been found guilty of manslaughter.

Louella Fletcher-Michie, 24, was found dead in woodland near the Bestival site in Dorset in 2017.

Ceon Broughton did little to help his girlfriend - the daughter of Holby City actor John Michie - for six hours as he feared breaching a suspended jail term.

He filmed Ms Fletcher-Michie and branded her a "drama queen" as she lay dying, Winchester Crown Court heard." (BBC website)

I disengage, I turn the page.

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