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Rudi Hedman Caterham 29 Oct 18 10.35am
Originally posted by Painter When is a dive, not a dive? When a defender stick out his leg and you have to dive over it to avoid injury, it would be pretty stupid to plough straight into the leg. So factually Sutton was correct, morally incorrect. It’s not only to avoid injury. If the attacking player is forced to manoeuvre, jump over poor tackles or is slowed down by foul play because the defender has missed the ball or not even gone for it then imo it’s a penalty. These are crucial moments in matches and they shouldn’t be allowed to stop chances or goals through their poor defending. If they’re sh1t and the attacker is better then they either have to accept it or concede a penalty. I don’t like the grappling either. There should be straight penalties for those as well. Could be a problem if the attacker starts it but they’re usually starting it because the defenders do. If that wasn’t the case they’d be moving around trying to be unmarked like it used to be. Edited by Rudi Hedman (29 Oct 2018 10.44am) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 29 Oct 18 10.35am

Originally posted by Painter

When is a dive, not a dive?

When a defender stick out his leg and you have to dive over it to avoid injury, it would be pretty stupid to plough straight into the leg.

So factually Sutton was correct, morally incorrect.

It’s not only to avoid injury. If the attacking player is forced to manoeuvre, jump over poor tackles or is slowed down by foul play because the defender has missed the ball or not even gone for it then imo it’s a penalty. These are crucial moments in matches and they shouldn’t be allowed to stop chances or goals through their poor defending. If they’re sh1t and the attacker is better then they either have to accept it or concede a penalty.

I don’t like the grappling either. There should be straight penalties for those as well. Could be a problem if the attacker starts it but they’re usually starting it because the defenders do. If that wasn’t the case they’d be moving around trying to be unmarked like it used to be.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (29 Oct 2018 10.44am)

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 29 Oct 18 10.43am
Originally posted by lefty27 Sutton was being a complete cock. The one against Everton he said was a penalty but Zaha conned the ref????, yesterday he said Zaha had dived but there was contact, he stopped short of calling him a cheat but did imply that. He thinks Zaha is a nightmare to referee because he is always going down, the best players do tend to as they get fouled a lot!? MOTD said it was a penalty and didn’t really imply anything about Wilf diving and fair play to the Arsenal boy for saying what he said as he could have said hardly touched him etc and thrown more fuel on the fire. I think Wilf dived v Arsenal but did it for the right reasons. He was impeded and like I said, the leg was blocking him, meaning he had to jump over it or manoeuvre, slowing him down and losing the chance to beat the defender, get a cross or shot in etc. Wilf could’ve gone naturally tumbling over sideways on that one. Would he have got the penalty but also, would he have been injured. It was a penalty. If you’re going to tackle in the box then you’ve either got to get the ball first or not block the player. The refs should know this and some do but some don’t. It’s the ones where just a foot is planted in front of the attacker’s foot and he dives that need to be stamped out. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 29 Oct 18 10.43am

Originally posted by lefty27

Sutton was being a complete cock. The one against Everton he said was a penalty but Zaha conned the ref????, yesterday he said Zaha had dived but there was contact, he stopped short of calling him a cheat but did imply that. He thinks Zaha is a nightmare to referee because he is always going down, the best players do tend to as they get fouled a lot!?
MOTD said it was a penalty and didn’t really imply anything about Wilf diving and fair play to the Arsenal boy for saying what he said as he could have said hardly touched him etc and thrown more fuel on the fire.

I think Wilf dived v Arsenal but did it for the right reasons. He was impeded and like I said, the leg was blocking him, meaning he had to jump over it or manoeuvre, slowing him down and losing the chance to beat the defender, get a cross or shot in etc.

Wilf could’ve gone naturally tumbling over sideways on that one. Would he have got the penalty but also, would he have been injured.

It was a penalty. If you’re going to tackle in the box then you’ve either got to get the ball first or not block the player. The refs should know this and some do but some don’t. It’s the ones where just a foot is planted in front of the attacker’s foot and he dives that need to be stamped out.

COYP

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Bexley Eagle Bexley Kent 29 Oct 18 11.47am
Given that Xhaka said in his post match interview it was a definate foul I am not sure there is much to debate here. If Sutton thinks Xhaka is a liar then he is a bigger fool than he makes himself out to be week in week out.
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Bexley Eagle

Bexley Kent 29 Oct 18 11.47am

Given that Xhaka said in his post match interview it was a definate foul I am not sure there is much to debate here. If Sutton thinks Xhaka is a liar then he is a bigger fool than he makes himself out to be week in week out.

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CrazyBadger Ware 29 Oct 18 11.51am
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I think Wilf dived v Arsenal but did it for the right reasons. He was impeded and like I said, the leg was blocking him, meaning he had to jump over it or manoeuvre, slowing him down and losing the chance to beat the defender, get a cross or shot in etc. Wilf could’ve gone naturally tumbling over sideways on that one. Would he have got the penalty but also, would he have been injured. It was a penalty. If you’re going to tackle in the box then you’ve either got to get the ball first or not block the player. The refs should know this and some do but some don’t. It’s the ones where just a foot is planted in front of the attacker’s foot and he dives that need to be stamped out. I don't think he did dive. After looking at it a few times - it seemed that he may have gone down easily as his foot may have clipped Xhaka. but then I heard what Xhaka said - that he hit him with his knee. I then rewatched it, and it was actually Zaha's inside (left) knee/thigh that made contact - not his foot/ankle that I had first thought, so actually Not A dive ! "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 29 Oct 18 11.51am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Wilf could’ve gone naturally tumbling over sideways on that one. Would he have got the penalty but also, would he have been injured.

I don't think he did dive. After looking at it a few times - it seemed that he may have gone down easily as his foot may have clipped Xhaka. but then I heard what Xhaka said - that he hit him with his knee. I then rewatched it, and it was actually Zaha's inside (left) knee/thigh that made contact - not his foot/ankle that I had first thought, so actually Not A dive !

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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Dixie Eagle Chatham 29 Oct 18 12.51pm
I also thought we had a claim for another penalty. When we were 2-1 down, Townsend (I Think) crossed it on from the right hand side and looked like Holding handballed it out of the penalty area. Quite a few of us in the upper holmesdale shouted for it but we were sitting behind Holding. Did anyone else see it better?
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Dixie Eagle

Chatham 29 Oct 18 12.51pm

I also thought we had a claim for another penalty. When we were 2-1 down, Townsend (I Think) crossed it on from the right hand side and looked like Holding handballed it out of the penalty area. Quite a few of us in the upper holmesdale shouted for it but we were sitting behind Holding.

Did anyone else see it better?

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ARGILE OLD GEEZER PORTIMAO 29 Oct 18 1.37pm
Originally posted by Dixie Eagle I also thought we had a claim for another penalty. When we were 2-1 down, Townsend (I Think) crossed it on from the right hand side and looked like Holding handballed it out of the penalty area. Quite a few of us in the upper holmesdale shouted for it but we were sitting behind Holding. Did anyone else see it better? Yes, just been shown on TV in slow motion, defiantly hits his thy,
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ARGILE OLD GEEZER

PORTIMAO 29 Oct 18 1.37pm

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Originally posted by Dixie Eagle

Did anyone else see it better?

Yes, just been shown on TV in slow motion, defiantly hits his thy,

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Eaglecoops CR3 29 Oct 18 2.33pm
Watched the 2nd penalty decision numerous times today. It is a foul all day long. The defender has tried to intercept the ball but is too slow and the ball has already gone. He basically blocks Wilf off with his thigh/knee and contact is clearly made. There can be no arguments about this. If an Arsenal player had been fouled in this manner and a penalty not given then there would have been an uproar. I bet certain commentators wouldn't have said dive then.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 29 Oct 18 2.33pm

Watched the 2nd penalty decision numerous times today. It is a foul all day long. The defender has tried to intercept the ball but is too slow and the ball has already gone. He basically blocks Wilf off with his thigh/knee and contact is clearly made. There can be no arguments about this. If an Arsenal player had been fouled in this manner and a penalty not given then there would have been an uproar. I bet certain commentators wouldn't have said dive then.

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DutchEagleJohan Vlissingen, Netherlands 29 Oct 18 4.15pm
I think it was an example of "overplaying" in the extreme. Luka is the one fouling but PVA is at fault for the pass in a very dangerous area. Needless free kick to give away. Originally posted by PhuketEagle Saw the TV player ratings afterwards & they actually gave Arsenal better numbers than ours! Can't believe that as we were much better than them over the course of the game. What did you think of Arse's first goal? I thought there was a hint of offside to it, or am I just biased? The second shd definitely have been disallowed, a Maradona-like moment of clear cheating. As my Dad always says "We should have won."
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DutchEagleJohan

Vlissingen, Netherlands 29 Oct 18 4.15pm

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I think it was an example of "overplaying" in the extreme. Luka is the one fouling but PVA is at fault for the pass in a very dangerous area. Needless free kick to give away.

Originally posted by PhuketEagle

Saw the TV player ratings afterwards & they actually gave Arsenal better numbers than ours! Can't believe that as we were much better than them over the course of the game.
What did you think of Arse's first goal? I thought there was a hint of offside to it, or am I just biased?
The second shd definitely have been disallowed, a Maradona-like moment of clear cheating.
As my Dad always says "We should have won."

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JRW2 Dulwich 29 Oct 18 5.51pm
Originally posted by DutchEagleJohan I think it was an example of "overplaying" in the extreme. Luka is the one fouling but PVA is at fault for the pass in a very dangerous area. Needless free kick to give away. Yes, PVA should have floated it up the wing. But Luka seemed to lose concentration for a split second. Even if you don't blame him for that, he was at fault (at least IMO) in then committing the foul. There was no need for it. And let's not forget that he gave away a free kick in the same position against Everton. In both cases the result was a goal to the opposition, and you could almost say that those two fouls have cost us three points. I seem to remember a statistic being quoted last season that Luka committed more fouls than any other Premiership player. I was astonished at the time - now I'm not so sure.
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JRW2

Dulwich 29 Oct 18 5.51pm

Originally posted by DutchEagleJohan

I think it was an example of "overplaying" in the extreme. Luka is the one fouling but PVA is at fault for the pass in a very dangerous area. Needless free kick to give away.

Yes, PVA should have floated it up the wing. But Luka seemed to lose concentration for a split second. Even if you don't blame him for that, he was at fault (at least IMO) in then committing the foul. There was no need for it. And let's not forget that he gave away a free kick in the same position against Everton. In both cases the result was a goal to the opposition, and you could almost say that those two fouls have cost us three points.

I seem to remember a statistic being quoted last season that Luka committed more fouls than any other Premiership player. I was astonished at the time - now I'm not so sure.

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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 29 Oct 18 6.27pm
just a word on their 1st. Hennessey should have set a 4 man wall. maybe even 5. it was a terrible decision to have a 2 man wall so close to the goal, even at that angle. even before he hit it my kids were incredulous we only had 2 in the wall. If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.
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Ginger Pubic Wig

Wickham de L'Ouest 29 Oct 18 6.27pm

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just a word on their 1st. Hennessey should have set a 4 man wall. maybe even 5. it was a terrible decision to have a 2 man wall so close to the goal, even at that angle. even before he hit it my kids were incredulous we only had 2 in the wall.

If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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cryrst The garden of England 29 Oct 18 8.15pm
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig just a word on their 1st. Hennessey should have set a 4 man wall. maybe even 5. it was a terrible decision to have a 2 man wall so close to the goal, even at that angle. even before he hit it my kids were incredulous we only had 2 in the wall. He also stepped left which meant if not he probably would have got more on the ball and maybe touched it over.
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cryrst

The garden of England 29 Oct 18 8.15pm

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

He also stepped left which meant if not he probably would have got more on the ball and maybe touched it over.

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Spiderman Horsham 29 Oct 18 8.26pm
Originally posted by lefty27 Sutton was being a complete cock. The one against Everton he said was a penalty but Zaha conned the ref????, yesterday he said Zaha had dived but there was contact, he stopped short of calling him a cheat but did imply that. He thinks Zaha is a nightmare to referee because he is always going down, the best players do tend to as they get fouled a lot!? MOTD said it was a penalty and didn’t really imply anything about Wilf diving and fair play to the Arsenal boy for saying what he said as he could have said hardly touched him etc and thrown more fuel on the fire. Sutton clearly has an agenda against Zaha. Shame the club or someone doesn't call him out on it. There is one thing giving an opinion as a pundit but another basically calling a player a cheat week after week.
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Spiderman

Horsham 29 Oct 18 8.26pm

Originally posted by lefty27

Sutton clearly has an agenda against Zaha. Shame the club or someone doesn't call him out on it. There is one thing giving an opinion as a pundit but another basically calling a player a cheat week after week.

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