are we not as rich as fans believe

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are we not as rich as fans believe

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HolmesdaleUpper Sanderstead 10 Jul 18 3.56pm
I can appreciate what you are saying about the bank but one of the biggest advantages of the American investment is we have no external debt.If it is any guide last year I believe we had a transfer budget of £52m which over both windows we were just under. It will be interesting to see what it might be this year. Originally posted by est1905 I imagine the modest profit each year is important for keeping the bank happy. I'd be surprised to not see that now continue year on year with a stadium to pay for. As far as transfer fees are concerned I think we'll have a bit to spend but the majority of our tv revenue now goes on player wages. So a 'marquee' signing is unlikely unless we sell a player for a massive fee (like when we signed Benteke for 30m around the same time as we sold Bolasie for 26m). Of course FFP comes into play too so the owners need to be mindful of that but its really about keeping a competitive team out on the pitch while paying for a new main stand while keeping within FFP rules while not letting the annual wage bill/running costs get out of control. I imagine we probably have around 20m to play with in the tranfer market which means we are either looking for freebies, lower league cheap buys or looking at leagues in Europe that still consider 10m a lot of money (Belgium, Norway, Sweden, etc) Failing that, if we spend big on a name player we will almost definitely need to sell to balance the accounts. Nearly every other club will be doing the same unless they are unconcerned with recieving a massive fine for breach of FFP
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HolmesdaleUpper

Sanderstead 10 Jul 18 3.56pm

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I can appreciate what you are saying about the bank but one of the biggest advantages of the American investment is we have no external debt.If it is any guide last year I believe we had a transfer budget of £52m which over both windows we were just under. It will be interesting to see what it might be this year.

Originally posted by est1905

I imagine the modest profit each year is important for keeping the bank happy. I'd be surprised to not see that now continue year on year with a stadium to pay for.
As far as transfer fees are concerned I think we'll have a bit to spend but the majority of our tv revenue now goes on player wages. So a 'marquee' signing is unlikely unless we sell a player for a massive fee (like when we signed Benteke for 30m around the same time as we sold Bolasie for 26m).
Of course FFP comes into play too so the owners need to be mindful of that but its really about keeping a competitive team out on the pitch while paying for a new main stand while keeping within FFP rules while not letting the annual wage bill/running costs get out of control.

I imagine we probably have around 20m to play with in the tranfer market which means we are either looking for freebies, lower league cheap buys or looking at leagues in Europe that still consider 10m a lot of money (Belgium, Norway, Sweden, etc)

Failing that, if we spend big on a name player we will almost definitely need to sell to balance the accounts. Nearly every other club will be doing the same unless they are unconcerned with recieving a massive fine for breach of FFP

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bexleydave Barnehurst 10 Jul 18 3.59pm
Originally posted by Direwolf I think the bargain bins of Aldi and Lidl can contain some decent stuff if you know what you are looking at. A nice metaphor for our esteemed transfer gurus to find us someone decent at a good price. True, let's hope so, but not "one's for the future" this time. Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)
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bexleydave

Barnehurst 10 Jul 18 3.59pm

Originally posted by Direwolf

I think the bargain bins of Aldi and Lidl can contain some decent stuff if you know what you are looking at. A nice metaphor for our esteemed transfer gurus to find us someone decent at a good price.

True, let's hope so, but not "one's for the future" this time.

Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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silvertop Portishead 10 Jul 18 4.23pm
Originally posted by est1905 I imagine the modest profit each year is important for keeping the bank happy. I'd be surprised to not see that now continue year on year with a stadium to pay for. As far as transfer fees are concerned I think we'll have a bit to spend but the majority of our tv revenue now goes on player wages. So a 'marquee' signing is unlikely unless we sell a player for a massive fee (like when we signed Benteke for 30m around the same time as we sold Bolasie for 26m). Of course FFP comes into play too so the owners need to be mindful of that but its really about keeping a competitive team out on the pitch while paying for a new main stand while keeping within FFP rules while not letting the annual wage bill/running costs get out of control. I imagine we probably have around 20m to play with in the tranfer market which means we are either looking for freebies, lower league cheap buys or looking at leagues in Europe that still consider 10m a lot of money (Belgium, Norway, Sweden, etc) Failing that, if we spend big on a name player we will almost definitely need to sell to balance the accounts. Nearly every other club will be doing the same unless they are unconcerned with recieving a massive fine for breach of FFP ...or they are so rich that their FFP ceiling pretty much means they can buy who they please when they please. We effectively have the same bargaining power as, say, 7 other clubs. But we are investing heavily in infrastructure and increasing non-TV revenue. We have a vast capacity to expand into. I guess most of the comp is already at or close to their max. In time, theoretically, we will be stronger than a few around us. Until then, as you say, we have to live within our means which greatly restricts our budget and options. However, it is the world cup and its domino effect across the complex world of football transactions that is probably stalling the market. I suspect Europe is poised to explode from the end of this month with every club now jostling for position. For our club, I suspect Palace has a deal in principle in place for quite a few players where completion is linked to a related transaction. It's a waiting game and I suspect a club of our size will not see any 1st team buys until after the season begins. Time will tell whether we have got better at it.
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silvertop

Portishead 10 Jul 18 4.23pm

Originally posted by est1905

...or they are so rich that their FFP ceiling pretty much means they can buy who they please when they please.

We effectively have the same bargaining power as, say, 7 other clubs. But we are investing heavily in infrastructure and increasing non-TV revenue. We have a vast capacity to expand into. I guess most of the comp is already at or close to their max. In time, theoretically, we will be stronger than a few around us.

Until then, as you say, we have to live within our means which greatly restricts our budget and options.

However, it is the world cup and its domino effect across the complex world of football transactions that is probably stalling the market. I suspect Europe is poised to explode from the end of this month with every club now jostling for position. For our club, I suspect Palace has a deal in principle in place for quite a few players where completion is linked to a related transaction.

It's a waiting game and I suspect a club of our size will not see any 1st team buys until after the season begins. Time will tell whether we have got better at it.

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TheExpatEagle 10 Jul 18 5.19pm
Originally posted by silvertop ...or they are so rich that their FFP ceiling pretty much means they can buy who they please when they please. We effectively have the same bargaining power as, say, 7 other clubs. But we are investing heavily in infrastructure and increasing non-TV revenue. We have a vast capacity to expand into. I guess most of the comp is already at or close to their max. In time, theoretically, we will be stronger than a few around us. Until then, as you say, we have to live within our means which greatly restricts our budget and options. However, it is the world cup and its domino effect across the complex world of football transactions that is probably stalling the market. I suspect Europe is poised to explode from the end of this month with every club now jostling for position. For our club, I suspect Palace has a deal in principle in place for quite a few players where completion is linked to a related transaction. It's a waiting game and I suspect a club of our size will not see any 1st team buys until after the season begins. Time will tell whether we have got better at it. I might have missed your point but having a rich owner doesn't change how much you can spend under FFP. We could be owned by Bill Gates and we'd still have the same amount to spend under FFP rules. Edited by TheExpatEagle (10 Jul 2018 5.20pm)
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TheExpatEagle

10 Jul 18 5.19pm

Originally posted by silvertop

...or they are so rich that their FFP ceiling pretty much means they can buy who they please when they please.

Until then, as you say, we have to live within our means which greatly restricts our budget and options.

It's a waiting game and I suspect a club of our size will not see any 1st team buys until after the season begins. Time will tell whether we have got better at it.

I might have missed your point but having a rich owner doesn't change how much you can spend under FFP. We could be owned by Bill Gates and we'd still have the same amount to spend under FFP rules.

Edited by TheExpatEagle (10 Jul 2018 5.20pm)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 10 Jul 18 5.33pm
Sorry but £20 mil is the kind of level of spending that’s seen the recent biggish clubs get relegated and will probably relegate us. I’ll be surprised if it’s that low. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 10 Jul 18 5.33pm

Sorry but £20 mil is the kind of level of spending that’s seen the recent biggish clubs get relegated and will probably relegate us. I’ll be surprised if it’s that low.

COYP

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bexleydave Barnehurst 10 Jul 18 5.42pm
Originally posted by silvertop ...or they are so rich that their FFP ceiling pretty much means they can buy who they please when they please. We effectively have the same bargaining power as, say, 7 other clubs. But we are investing heavily in infrastructure and increasing non-TV revenue. We have a vast capacity to expand into. I guess most of the comp is already at or close to their max. In time, theoretically, we will be stronger than a few around us. Until then, as you say, we have to live within our means which greatly restricts our budget and options. However, it is the world cup and its domino effect across the complex world of football transactions that is probably stalling the market. I suspect Europe is poised to explode from the end of this month with every club now jostling for position. For our club, I suspect Palace has a deal in principle in place for quite a few players where completion is linked to a related transaction. It's a waiting game and I suspect a club of our size will not see any 1st team buys until after the season begins. Time will tell whether we have got better at it. Well, if so, it will only have nine days to explode into. Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)
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bexleydave

Barnehurst 10 Jul 18 5.42pm

Originally posted by silvertop

...or they are so rich that their FFP ceiling pretty much means they can buy who they please when they please.

Until then, as you say, we have to live within our means which greatly restricts our budget and options.

However, it is the world cup and its domino effect across the complex world of football transactions that is probably stalling the market. I suspect Europe is poised to explode from the end of this month with every club now jostling for position. For our club, I suspect Palace has a deal in principle in place for quite a few players where completion is linked to a related transaction.

It's a waiting game and I suspect a club of our size will not see any 1st team buys until after the season begins. Time will tell whether we have got better at it.

Well, if so, it will only have nine days to explode into.

Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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bexleydave Barnehurst 10 Jul 18 5.46pm
Originally posted by TheExpatEagle I might have missed your point but having a rich owner doesn't change how much you can spend under FFP. We could be owned by Bill Gates and we'd still have the same amount to spend under FFP rules. That rather depends on how creative the owner's accountants are at inserting injections of cash into the club's books. Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)
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bexleydave

Barnehurst 10 Jul 18 5.46pm

Originally posted by TheExpatEagle

I might have missed your point but having a rich owner doesn't change how much you can spend under FFP. We could be owned by Bill Gates and we'd still have the same amount to spend under FFP rules.

That rather depends on how creative the owner's accountants are at inserting injections of cash into the club's books.

Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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silvertop Portishead 10 Jul 18 8.55pm
Originally posted by TheExpatEagle I might have missed your point but having a rich owner doesn't change how much you can spend under FFP. We could be owned by Bill Gates and we'd still have the same amount to spend under FFP rules. Edited by TheExpatEagle (10 Jul 2018 5.20pm) Perhaps I don't understand FFP rules? I believed clubs had to spend within their means. That term was defined not by the depth of pocket of the owner, but by the filed balance sheet. Thus, man utd have collosal earnings and thus can buy who they like practically unrestricted by ffp. Palace are not rich enough to simply splash out on any marquee signings they fancy. In time, the earnings will continue to rise and with it the spending limit imposed by ffp. As I said, perhaps I dont understand the rules?
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silvertop

Portishead 10 Jul 18 8.55pm

Originally posted by TheExpatEagle

I might have missed your point but having a rich owner doesn't change how much you can spend under FFP. We could be owned by Bill Gates and we'd still have the same amount to spend under FFP rules.

Edited by TheExpatEagle (10 Jul 2018 5.20pm)

Perhaps I don't understand FFP rules? I believed clubs had to spend within their means. That term was defined not by the depth of pocket of the owner, but by the filed balance sheet. Thus, man utd have collosal earnings and thus can buy who they like practically unrestricted by ffp. Palace are not rich enough to simply splash out on any marquee signings they fancy. In time, the earnings will continue to rise and with it the spending limit imposed by ffp.

As I said, perhaps I dont understand the rules?

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silvertop Portishead 10 Jul 18 8.57pm
Originally posted by bexleydave Well, if so, it will only have nine days to explode into. Yup. I predict a proper scramble right to the wire by all clubs; not just us.
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silvertop

Portishead 10 Jul 18 8.57pm

Originally posted by bexleydave

Well, if so, it will only have nine days to explode into.

Yup. I predict a proper scramble right to the wire by all clubs; not just us.

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becky over the moon 10 Jul 18 9.09pm
Originally posted by silvertop However, it is the world cup and its domino effect across the complex world of football transactions that is probably stalling the market. I suspect Europe is poised to explode from the end of this month with every club now jostling for position. For our club, I suspect Palace has a deal in principle in place for quite a few players where completion is linked to a related transaction. It's a waiting game and I suspect a club of our size will not see any 1st team buys until after the season begins. Time will tell whether we have got better at it. The Premiership transfer window closes at 5pm on 9th August. Our first match is 11th August So unless I am mistaken, we need to get our skates on after this weekend........ A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 10 Jul 18 9.09pm

Originally posted by silvertop

It's a waiting game and I suspect a club of our size will not see any 1st team buys until after the season begins. Time will tell whether we have got better at it.

The Premiership transfer window closes at 5pm on 9th August.

Our first match is 11th August

So unless I am mistaken, we need to get our skates on after this weekend........

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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bexleydave Barnehurst 10 Jul 18 9.41pm
Originally posted by silvertop Perhaps I don't understand FFP rules? I believed clubs had to spend within their means. That term was defined not by the depth of pocket of the owner, but by the filed balance sheet. Thus, man utd have collosal earnings and thus can buy who they like practically unrestricted by ffp. Palace are not rich enough to simply splash out on any marquee signings they fancy. In time, the earnings will continue to rise and with it the spending limit imposed by ffp. As I said, perhaps I dont understand the rules? You'd need to do your own research, and I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of how it's done, but there are some grey accounting practises that enable the less than scrupulously honest to put money into a club, for a purpose that doesn't impact on FFP, but ends up used for purposes other than that for which it appeared to be intended. Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)
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bexleydave

Barnehurst 10 Jul 18 9.41pm

Originally posted by silvertop

As I said, perhaps I dont understand the rules?

You'd need to do your own research, and I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of how it's done, but there are some grey accounting practises that enable the less than scrupulously honest to put money into a club, for a purpose that doesn't impact on FFP, but ends up used for purposes other than that for which it appeared to be intended.

Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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Palace in the Blood 10 Jul 18 10.20pm
This may be what problem is "Clubs will be able to increase their wage spend by £7m each season from 2016/17 to 2018/19 (an increase from the £4m a season during the current TV deal). Clubs can exceed this £7m cap if they generate increased revenue from commercial income, player trading and Match Day income." This excludes TV income [Link] Also look at the comments in this article re Brighton and there losses
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Palace in the Blood

10 Jul 18 10.20pm

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This may be what problem is "Clubs will be able to increase their wage spend by £7m each season from 2016/17 to 2018/19 (an increase from the £4m a season during the current TV deal). Clubs can exceed this £7m cap if they generate increased revenue from commercial income, player trading and Match Day income." This excludes TV income

[Link]

Also look at the comments in this article re Brighton and there losses

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