Possibly and they’re to some extent to blame for economic problems but they’re not responsible for poor family values passed down generations or no mark men who think knocking up another young girl who isn’t much of a catch is something to be proud of, or poor behaviour, attendance or performance at school.

The lack of aspiration and the failure to educate white working class is nothing new. I have recently befriended a social anthropologist she is a lecturer at a northern university. About 12 years ago she published a book on this very subject and used Bermondsey as her area of expertise. I am deliberately not identifying her as I do not want to misquote her by accident. She has spent years studying this subject and I may not do her justice.

This is my take on her book.

She is very middle class but due to circumstances she outlined in the book she spent 15 years living on a council estate in poverty so her observations are very first hand and she struggled with the day to day just like her neighbours.

Having grown up on a council estate I recognise a lot of the characters she describes. As the OP said some white working class families see education as a chore and pointless as they do not see it will lead to anything. This apathy and lack of ambition is the root of the problem. I suspect that a similar attitude may also exist amongst some young black people who see gangs and drugs as a better career than university.

Until we can create an aspirational culture as the norm we will continue to have these problems. Her feeling was that families that succeed in formal education is because it is a learned behaviour from home. Some children do not embrace school because they are not used to a formal structure e.g. lessons then play then lessons then lunch. Children who are given structure at home just accept the rules of school as just another thing they have to do.

I did not think that I would agree with her before I read the book but on reflection a lot of what she said is right. The real question is how you create an aspirational society. I doubt anyone has the answer to that.

There is a complete lack of honesty in education.

The Ofsted chief (Amanda Spielman) has said 'We are having to grapple with the unhappy fact that many local (white) working class communities have felt the full brunt of economic dislocation in recent years, and, perhaps as a result, can lack the aspiration and drive seen in many migrant communities.'

Then Sir Michael Wilshaw (former chief) said, 'The reason why London schools are doing so well, apart from good head teachers and teachers, is that a lot of the immigrant families care about education, they value education, they support their children.'

'I'm working in parts of England with white British populations where parents don't care. Or a lot of them don't care. And the head teachers tell me that less than 50% turn up to parents' evening. Now that's outrageous.'

[Link]

I want to make some observations on these comments.

Firstly, at a general macro level these comments are correct. There is an underclass within every social group and as whites are over eighty percent of the population this number is significant in England/UK.

However, if this had been stated about the black community in the same language the far left would be, in their simplistic way, screaming racism.

She was also correct to detail the reality that children from underclass families don't have motivation and view school as a form of jail time.....I use that 'underclass' word rather than working class because most working class children do actually work hard or at least behave ok.

However what is not ok is to highlight 'white' working class families as negative and then produce this generalized description that is totally disingenuous that states that many migrant communities' have aspiration and drive.

This is lumping migrant communities together and falsely giving the impression that they are similar.

This is a problematic statement and it isn't true. The truth is that 'some' do and some don't. The context matters and the achievements in different subjects matter as well. For example achievement in STEM is more important to the economy than producing an endless stream of job seekers from the humanities.

It isn't 'many' migrant communities, it's a specific number of migrant communities who do well and the rest of them don't. Migrant communities also have huge underclass problems. For example, for their population size there are double that percentage of Muslims within prisons.

South east Asians on average do better than any other group. The old 'tiger' mother stereotype notwithstanding the statistics don't lie.

Indians on average do better.

Other groups have issues.

However, this focus on white underclass performance completely ignores the reality that black students are the ethnic group least likely to achieve a C in their Maths GCSE, with only 63% attaining this level, compared to a national average of 68%

For black boys this is worse, at 60%. This translates into strikingly low attainment in science, technology, engineering and maths (STEM) A levels at key stage 5. I view the performance in the most difficult subjects as the most important aspect.

Where is the Ofsted focus upon this?

No, this is left to black leaders to address and it's down to poor and negative attitudes and also a lack of recognition that some groups, on average, are just statistically more academically gifted than others and that's no one's fault.

I'll end the post with how I started it. There is a complete lack of honesty in education.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jun 2018 12.51pm)

What if a person isn't smart enough to 'achieve things by their own efforts'. 1 in 15 people have IQs of 85 or below.

What do you expect these people to be doing?

Especially if you pair a low IQ with not having parents promoting positive mindsets for you as you had.

I mean....we can't just put our heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away.

It's like the old banking proverb, 'If you owe a bank thousands, you have a problem; owe a bank millions, the bank has a problem.'

Interested, not obsessed.

I've been a teacher for years and it's a significant factor in achievement. It affects people's ability to earn and achieve and is a significant driver in crime.

Generally I'm interested in social and current affairs.

I have the 'The Blank Slate' by Pinker and it details the folly of ignoring it.

I've already detailed my concerns earlier in the thread.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jun 2018 8.00am)