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 Rudi Hedman  Caterham 22 Mar 18 12.04pm |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
below the top 6, it's pretty much a crap shoot. Southampton, stoke, west ham, west Brom. you wouldn't expect them to be in the mire the way they are. a few bad managerial selections, a bit of infighting and bang, they're in trouble. So much for Southampton's black box. in the end they went for Mark Hughes, who might give them something, or might not. but he is just a.n. other "safe pair of hands" on the managerial treadmill. being a premier league chairman is harder than it looks. Apart from hiring Pellegrino when Frank or Silva or anyone reasonably good would've sufficed their black box looks to have done what was intended. Southampton's error is ditching managers when they're doing okay, not the hiring of them in the first place. There could be some financial issues or leakages after sales of players though. Lots out and not really much spent, and I'm not talking just this January either. That's a financial management issue and not a footballing knowledge or strategy fault.
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| Painter Croydon 22 Mar 18 12.42pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
You've said it. The Southampton and Stoke and West Brom experiences are occasional bad years. One or maybe 2 of those won't go down and will recover while one or 2 will go down and compete sooner than we probably could. That's because our infrastructure isn't up to scratch. Those clubs are flirting with the occasional danger whereas we're in it every season because our preparation is poor. People are excusing our annual mess because of them having the occasional bad time they'll recover from. None of them have spent massively so let's not pretend they're screwed if they get relegated. What do you know about the infrastructure of other clubs, you have no idea of the debt they are carrying. Those clubs you state haven’t splashed loads of money on transfers, but their wage bill will still be unsustainable in the Championship.
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| Stuk Top half 22 Mar 18 12.43pm |
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Originally posted by Painter
Sadly, we will never be a top 6 team, if you think we can then you will be disappointed. We haven’t got the infrastructure or money to achieve that. Winning a cup or Europa cup are no guarantees, look at many who have risen only to fall like a stone Leeds, Wigan, Blackburn and Fulham to name a few. Even getting to a cup final nearly cost us our league place. And we can add Villa, Hull, Portsmouth, Birmingham.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 22 Mar 18 12.45pm |
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Originally posted by Painter
What do you know about the infrastructure of other clubs, you have no idea of the debt they are carrying. Those clubs you state haven’t splashed loads of money on transfers, but their wage bill will still be unsustainable in the Championship. Are you telling me their category A academies and scouting networks aren't better than ours and our cat B status? Therefore when its going to matter more in the championship they'll have an edge.
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| Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 22 Mar 18 1.10pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Apart from hiring Pellegrino when Frank or Silva or anyone reasonably good would've sufficed their black box looks to have done what was intended. Southampton's error is ditching managers when they're doing okay, not the hiring of them in the first place. There could be some financial issues or leakages after sales of players though. Lots out and not really much spent, and I'm not talking just this January either. That's a financial management issue and not a footballing knowledge or strategy fault. My point was that Mark Hughes doesn't look like the result of years of painstaking research. It looks like in the end they thought: `fk this black box malarkey for a game of soldiers, let's go for a `safe' option', even though I have profound doubts Hughes is a safe option. Which is precisely what dearly beloved Parish would do if faced with the same quandary. And while I get your point, it is something of a strategy error if their policy is so skewed toward player identification, and player development, and dividend taking that they let their talent base erode so badly that they are in a relegation dogfight. It's a strategy that sends a bad message to the players, and is probably something that you're going to risk when you try to maximize profit from a football club, which I reckon is what they do.
If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities. |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 22 Mar 18 1.18pm |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
My point was that Mark Hughes doesn't look like the result of years of painstaking research. It looks like in the end they thought: `fk this black box malarkey for a game of soldiers, let's go for a `safe' option', even though I have profound doubts Hughes is a safe option. Which is precisely what dearly beloved Parish would do if faced with the same quandary. And while I get your point, it is something of a strategy error if their policy is so skewed toward player identification, and player development, and dividend taking that they let their talent base erode so badly that they are in a relegation dogfight. It's a strategy that sends a bad message to the players, and is probably something that you're going to risk when you try to maximize profit from a football club, which I reckon is what they do. We probably agree on a lot here then and it's a case of it working well, but wasn't enough for them or their fans and it's gone off piste and they're resorting to old fashioned means to save themselves.
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| Maine Eagle USA 22 Mar 18 1.24pm |
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When we get a satisfying win, we tend to see some "Parish is the best thing that ever happened to us" threads expounding the old "we could do so much worse, count your lucky stars, sunshine" viewpoint. When we experience a soul destroying loss, we get a lot of "Parish doesn't know what the hell he is doing" and "the club is a shambles" voices. The truth is, as always, somewhere in the middle. The fact is that he has done a lot for the club, including the ultimate act which, together with his pals, allowed us to remain in existence. Never to be forgotten. But he has major shortcomings as a premier league chairman, some are very major aswell. Also I must apologize to the OP, but there is no way on earth Parish is going to take this club to the next level. He and the club are at the level they are at, every single year, because that is the best level possible given what goes into the club and some of the bizarre decisions and errors that get made. Getting a nice new stadium wont solve the systemic squad issues and transfer failings. If we fix that, together with our ability to actually hold on to a manager for a while, then we could go to the next level. Trouble is after many years trying, SP hasn't pulled that off yet and I wouldn't hold your breath either.
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| Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 22 Mar 18 1.28pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
We probably agree on a lot here then and it's a case of it working well, but wasn't enough for them or their fans and it's gone off piste and they're resorting to old fashioned means to save themselves. Agreed. Two extremes. We are playing moneyball when we are too small to play moneyball, and don't seem great at it either. They've been -- from the outside looking in -- too puritanical about their black box and now they've thrown it out somewhat in a panic. (And since I dislike Southampton, I hope it's a panic that ends in their relegation.)
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| rikz Croydon 22 Mar 18 2.09pm |
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Like someone else has pointed out there's only a handful of clubs that are gaurenteed to ply their trade in the top flight. We will most certainly be relegated sometime in the near future and will almost certainly be back in the top flight not too far after, that's how it is for a club our size and how it will always be without selling out. All I really care about is watching us play a competitive game in Europe, once that happens then I can quite happily watch us till the day I die in any division, couldn't really care, we will never be a top club and I can handle that, would just be quite dissapointed if while we are relatively good and have a shot of Europe we don't take that opportunity. It actually baffles me when people moan about being in the league or fa cup and not prioritizing our league position. Give me a cup win and a run in Europe and I'll die happy.
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| Omph Liverpool 22 Mar 18 3.53pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
When we get a satisfying win, we tend to see some "Parish is the best thing that ever happened to us" threads expounding the old "we could do so much worse, count your lucky stars, sunshine" viewpoint. When we experience a soul destroying loss, we get a lot of "Parish doesn't know what the hell he is doing" and "the club is a shambles" voices. The truth is, as always, somewhere in the middle. The fact is that he has done a lot for the club, including the ultimate act which, together with his pals, allowed us to remain in existence. Never to be forgotten. But he has major shortcomings as a premier league chairman, some are very major aswell. Also I must apologize to the OP, but there is no way on earth Parish is going to take this club to the next level. He and the club are at the level they are at, every single year, because that is the best level possible given what goes into the club and some of the bizarre decisions and errors that get made. Getting a nice new stadium wont solve the systemic squad issues and transfer failings. If we fix that, together with our ability to actually hold on to a manager for a while, then we could go to the next level. Trouble is after many years trying, SP hasn't pulled that off yet and I wouldn't hold your breath either.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 22 Mar 18 4.06pm |
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Originally posted by rikz
Like someone else has pointed out there's only a handful of clubs that are gaurenteed to ply their trade in the top flight. We will most certainly be relegated sometime in the near future and will almost certainly be back in the top flight not too far after, that's how it is for a club our size and how it will always be without selling out. All I really care about is watching us play a competitive game in Europe, once that happens then I can quite happily watch us till the day I die in any division, couldn't really care, we will never be a top club and I can handle that, would just be quite dissapointed if while we are relatively good and have a shot of Europe we don't take that opportunity. It actually baffles me when people moan about being in the league or fa cup and not prioritizing our league position. Give me a cup win and a run in Europe and I'll die happy. Agree with a lot but to have a serious cup run to the semi final and not be in further danger of relegation you really need to be 2 wins or whatever away from relegation. Cup finals have killed clubs off. Wigan, Hull and Birmingham spring to mind. It nearly did us but Parish and Pardew made that worse with expansive football, no left back cover and generally sitting on the Bolasie money and spending only £10 mil. (I remember you raised contract length costs there were priorities left unsolved costing more later) Brighton and Murray did us a favour knocking us out.
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| Omph Liverpool 22 Mar 18 4.23pm |
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Of course he has his failings. But for my money the squad and transfer issues are often blown out of proportion. It's a fairly common consensus that we have one of the strongest squads outside the top 6/7 - when fit!!. Only Jules and Ward - I think - survive from the championship squad and so that's squad has been put together in the PL. You're right the new stadium isn't a panacea but increased capacity will move us on up financially - perhaps to the tune of a new player a season. Not to be sniffed at. Done well it could be quite a legacy. The next level is quite attainable if you take it to be "safe time" without the threat of relegation - essentially Leicester without the trophy. Give us a couple of seasons of managerial continuity under Roy and that sort of drama free existence is within touch. From that point of view he has been downright unlucky to lose both Pulis and BFS each of whom might have made us more secure. The trouble is of course that nothing is forever - certainly not Roy. There is considerable churn with over half the pro clubs having made it to the PL and it'd be frankly surprising if more than 7 clubs survived in the PL for the next ten years or so. Originally posted by Maine Eagle
When we get a satisfying win, we tend to see some "Parish is the best thing that ever happened to us" threads expounding the old "we could do so much worse, count your lucky stars, sunshine" viewpoint. When we experience a soul destroying loss, we get a lot of "Parish doesn't know what the hell he is doing" and "the club is a shambles" voices. The truth is, as always, somewhere in the middle. The fact is that he has done a lot for the club, including the ultimate act which, together with his pals, allowed us to remain in existence. Never to be forgotten. But he has major shortcomings as a premier league chairman, some are very major aswell. Also I must apologize to the OP, but there is no way on earth Parish is going to take this club to the next level. He and the club are at the level they are at, every single year, because that is the best level possible given what goes into the club and some of the bizarre decisions and errors that get made. Getting a nice new stadium wont solve the systemic squad issues and transfer failings. If we fix that, together with our ability to actually hold on to a manager for a while, then we could go to the next level. Trouble is after many years trying, SP hasn't pulled that off yet and I wouldn't hold your breath either.
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