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matt_himself Matataland 03 Jan 18 11.47am | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Very much like religion then. You mention 'since the 60's...' Yet from then, and for the majority of the time, the most powerful governments and most powerful media, who have affected social policy and, thus, society itself, to where we are today here and in the U.S, have been very right-wing. Murdoch, Black, Thatcher, Reagan, Nixon, Bush and the neo-Cons, Dacre, Desmond, etc. What have the liberals to offer? Bill Clinton and John Major and maybe throw in Matthew Wright as a freebie. The people whom your criticism should really be aimed at are the former but because they come from the same political arena you don't/can't so you blame others instead. You would make a good politician yourself. If all governments had been ‘very right wing’ since the 60’s, why are we not in the same social situation as the 1950’s? You know full well that there has been a liberal agenda pursued by the establishment for 50 years. Why deny it?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 03 Jan 18 12.12pm | |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Jan 18 12.59pm | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Liberal equals nanny state. That is what liberals want, they want you to say and think whatever fashionable fad of the day is their paramount campaign. I think liberal is a form of fascism. A form of social control which forces people to act and think through fear of being labelled or imprisoned for free speech. What? Who is being imprisoned for free speech. Worst that seems to happen is people being sacked by their employers for breaching their contract. If you express views, that leave you 'labelled' then thats kind of how free speech works. Its not without consequence - If you're expressing racist views, you're going to end up being seen by others as a racist. How is that 'fascism' thats just how all society has worked, for all time. You are labelled and treated based on the views you express. No doubt you have me labelled as a leftie. How is that any different? Liberalism is the opposite of fascism, where in free speech doesn't exist, nor does political dissent or free discourse. But that doesn't mean that political views aren't without consequence to others. Person A is racist, then he's a racist to me, and he probably thinks I'm a liberal snowflake. Unsurprisingly, people might lose jobs, for expressing views that contradict or damage the reputation of their employers. Just like they always have. Do you think people expressing left wing views haven't experienced the same (they did, they were blacklisted from jobs etc). If Liberals were fascism people would disappear for saying the 'wrong thing'.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Stirlingsays 03 Jan 18 1.29pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
What? Who is being imprisoned for free speech. Worst that seems to happen is people being sacked by their employers for breaching their contract. If you express views, that leave you 'labelled' then thats kind of how free speech works. Its not without consequence - If you're expressing racist views, you're going to end up being seen by others as a racist. How is that 'fascism' thats just how all society has worked, for all time. You are labelled and treated based on the views you express. No doubt you have me labelled as a leftie. How is that any different? Liberalism is the opposite of fascism, where in free speech doesn't exist, nor does political dissent or free discourse. But that doesn't mean that political views aren't without consequence to others. Person A is racist, then he's a racist to me, and he probably thinks I'm a liberal snowflake. Unsurprisingly, people might lose jobs, for expressing views that contradict or damage the reputation of their employers. Just like they always have. Do you think people expressing left wing views haven't experienced the same (they did, they were blacklisted from jobs etc). If Liberals were fascism people would disappear for saying the 'wrong thing'. If Liberals were fascism or communism people would disappear for saying the 'wrong thing'. Or to be more accurate....extreme authoritarianism...... As there are as many versions of an ideology as there are ideologies. While not disagreeing with your general thrust here it is also true that the definitions of what qualifies as 'wrong think' worthy of a sacking has become more narrower. You might or might not view that as acceptable and preferable but I definitely don't view it as healthy for society going forward. Ideas must be expressed.....the marketplace of ideas decides what society should want....not overbearing elites. The only protections should be that no group can restrict that dynamic or implement policies that restrict opposition to freedom of expression (within the law).....in other words that secularism can't be overthrown. Religion which brainwashes its children must never be allowed to touch these principles.....outside of that....boo hiss to those looking to 'shape' society into what they think people should think or behave. Let people vote for their current preference and let other political groups campaign against it.....a meritocracy of ideas. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Jan 2018 1.31pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 03 Jan 18 2.07pm | |
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Owen Jones being well, Owen Jones [Tweet Link]
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matt_himself Matataland 03 Jan 18 2.30pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
What? Who is being imprisoned for free speech. Worst that seems to happen is people being sacked by their employers for breaching their contract. If you express views, that leave you 'labelled' then thats kind of how free speech works. Its not without consequence - If you're expressing racist views, you're going to end up being seen by others as a racist. How is that 'fascism' thats just how all society has worked, for all time. You are labelled and treated based on the views you express. No doubt you have me labelled as a leftie. How is that any different? Liberalism is the opposite of fascism, where in free speech doesn't exist, nor does political dissent or free discourse. But that doesn't mean that political views aren't without consequence to others. Person A is racist, then he's a racist to me, and he probably thinks I'm a liberal snowflake. Unsurprisingly, people might lose jobs, for expressing views that contradict or damage the reputation of their employers. Just like they always have. Do you think people expressing left wing views haven't experienced the same (they did, they were blacklisted from jobs etc). If Liberals were fascism people would disappear for saying the 'wrong thing'. I will give you an example of liberal fascism. Julie Bindel, hardly a neo-con, and someone whom has admirably campaigned against domestic violence her whole life, is ‘no platformed’ at universities for expressing her view about transgender people. The liberals got her silenced at universities for voicing her opinions. There are other examples. I am not saying that I share her views. Fascism isn’t just the extreme version you highlight above. It is also a ‘creep’, forcing people to think and act in a certain way if they dare challenge liberal orthodoxy.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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legaleagle 03 Jan 18 3.06pm | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Fascism isn’t just the extreme version you highlight above. It is also a ‘creep’, forcing people to think and act in a certain way if they dare challenge liberal orthodoxy. And what,pray,is it when the Daily Mail describes Judges simply upholding the law of the land and the sovereignty of parliament as "enemies of the people"?
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matt_himself Matataland 03 Jan 18 3.58pm | |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
And what,pray,is it when the Daily Mail describes Judges simply upholding the law of the land and the sovereignty of parliament as "enemies of the people"? If you are asking me to defend the Daily Mail, I won’t. Ask them, if you want that clarified.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Jan 18 4.06pm | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
I will give you an example of liberal fascism. Julie Bindel, hardly a neo-con, and someone whom has admirably campaigned against domestic violence her whole life, is ‘no platformed’ at universities for expressing her view about transgender people. The liberals got her silenced at universities for voicing her opinions. There are other examples. I am not saying that I share her views. Fascism isn’t just the extreme version you highlight above. It is also a ‘creep’, forcing people to think and act in a certain way if they dare challenge liberal orthodoxy. Where as actual fascism they'd disappear her, probably torture her first. Universities have always been a bit like that personally I don't agree - Middle Class Guardianistas who've just discovered politics. I'm not sure anyone here has been forced to act differently or think differently though. They're just apparently on a list of people universities (private bodies) won't invite to give lectures.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Jan 18 4.13pm | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
I will give you an example of liberal fascism. Julie Bindel, hardly a neo-con, and someone whom has admirably campaigned against domestic violence her whole life, is ‘no platformed’ at universities for expressing her view about transgender people. The liberals got her silenced at universities for voicing her opinions. There are other examples. I am not saying that I share her views. Fascism isn’t just the extreme version you highlight above. It is also a ‘creep’, forcing people to think and act in a certain way if they dare challenge liberal orthodoxy. Interestingly Julie Bindel believes that its anti-feminists that are the problem not ultra liberals. In her explaination of the ban, she was due to speak alongside Milo Yanniapolis.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Stirlingsays 03 Jan 18 4.21pm | |
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Yeah, in Owen Jones's head....they are all little versions of Owen Jones. Labour Iran.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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matt_himself Matataland 03 Jan 18 4.22pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Interestingly Julie Bindel believes that its anti-feminists that are the problem not ultra liberals. In her explaination of the ban, she was due to speak alongside Milo Yanniapolis. The story: Not quite how you put it.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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