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Red Robbo
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jamiemartin721  Reading 06 Nov 17 11.52am |
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Originally posted by Bin Liner
good point, why did it go so wrong for the UK car industry? the products were terrible though weren't they? The couldn't compete, financially or aesthetically, with their European counter-parts. British cars were ugly and very utilitarian in their appearance, where as the imports were increasingly stylish and aesthetically pleasing (and by default exotic). Whilst I don't doubt that the Unions were partially responsible for the death of the UK car industry with their intransigence, the real problem was competition. The days of a car as just a functional thing were over once competition was introduced to the market. And for British Cars - looking like a functional box on wheels wasn't enough. There is a reason why cars like Jaguar and Roll-Royce survived, and why Ford replaced Rover and Leyland - they understood marketing and the nature of 'consumer aspiration'. Anyone can sell something people need, when they have a limited market freedom. Once you have completion, you could produce the best ugly object for the job, and it'll still lose out to the less functional beautiful object. People don't make purely rational decisions, in terms of economics, aesthetics are very important. Something that is more beautiful, is inherently more appealing, even if its not as good. Companies like BMW, Mercedes, Ford etc understood this in a way that Leyland and Rover didn't (but Jaguar and Rolls Royce did). Ugly doesn't sell, even if its really good.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Nov 17 12.04pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I think that tends to work both ways, here businesses are a lot less interested in a 'fair deal' for their workers - and the tendency seen over the last 30 years or so has seen that. Companies are interested in profits, unions are interested in wages. Neither really seems to have been overly good at working together and compromise. That is broadly true. But many union officials, especially at the lower levels, also had/have a political agenda too and use wage disputes etc as weapons to attack democratic government.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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 Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 06 Nov 17 12.19pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
That is broadly true. But many union officials, especially at the lower levels, also had/have a political agenda too and use wage disputes etc as weapons to attack democratic government. Exactly If you were working for me It would be my way or the Highway.....
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| packanick BN7 06 Nov 17 12.30pm |
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Robbo was no angel, and went too far. Michael Edwards was at times too hostile, and could have made a better job of relations. A lack of decency on both sides made things worse. A better way to run a business is with everyone with you, not against you. Ethics and morals can go hand in hand with entrepreneurship if you try.
Palace fan from Kenley, as a kid. Everyone was Chelsea (it was '72) so I was Palace. Thanks Palace for all the fun. |
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Nov 17 12.40pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
That is broadly true. But many union officials, especially at the lower levels, also had/have a political agenda too and use wage disputes etc as weapons to attack democratic government. British Leyland had inherited great motoring names such as Austin and Rover but in large part because of Red Robbos antics and influence and those under his power, quality and innovation rapidly declined and with the company having a reputation for shoddiness it struggled to compete. Edited by Willo (06 Nov 2017 12.41pm)
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| Midlands Eagle 06 Nov 17 2.30pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
People don't make purely rational decisions, in terms of economics, aesthetics are very important. Something that is more beautiful, is inherently more appealing, even if its not as good. That is very true. I'm looking to change my car next summer and one of the cars on my short list is the Maserati Ghibli. By all accounts it's a pretty dreadful car but it's so good looking that I can't help but want one. Hopefully when the time comes my head will rule my heart
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Nov 17 3.50pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
That is very true. I'm looking to change my car next summer and one of the cars on my short list is the Maserati Ghibli. By all accounts it's a pretty dreadful car but it's so good looking that I can't help but want one. Hopefully when the time comes my head will rule my heart I just googled images of it. No go faster stripes or three foot spoiler on the back. But it does 170 mph which is of course essential. What is the point of these things?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 06 Nov 17 3.52pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
That is very true. I'm looking to change my car next summer and one of the cars on my short list is the Maserati Ghibli. By all accounts it's a pretty dreadful car but it's so good looking that I can't help but want one. Hopefully when the time comes my head will rule my heart Well, the factor of similar affordability is assumed. There is a reason why very expensive cars look fantastic. You don't tend to see them selling Ferrari's that are function, over aesthetics. Edited by jamiemartin721 (06 Nov 2017 3.53pm)
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 06 Nov 17 3.54pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
I just googled images of it. No go faster stripes or three foot spoiler on the back. But it does 170 mph which is of course essential. What is the point of these things? Aesthetics and status, along with a reckless regard for Darwinian theory.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 06 Nov 17 4.06pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
British Leyland had inherited great motoring names such as Austin and Rover but in large part because of Red Robbos antics and influence and those under his power, quality and innovation rapidly declined and with the company having a reputation for shoddiness it struggled to compete. Edited by Willo (06 Nov 2017 12.41pm) Where as the competition in the market place had none... No wait, they had Ford, Peugeot, Citron, BMW, Mercedes etc. The Unions weren't the people designing the cars, or marketing them. The 1970s saw people switch on mass to European and American cars. Also British Leyland Motor Groups absurdly was competing within its own companies for market share (which also undermines the general principle of mass production). BLMC wasn't just undermined by the Unions demands, the company was a f**king mess at understanding how business operates, how marketing works and how to utilise mass production. You don't tend to see other motor car companies produce cars in direct completion with their own models, or with such frequency as British Leyland Motor Company did. Also the Unions weren't behind the Rover P8 and P9 (another total waste of funds).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Nov 17 4.24pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Where as the competition in the market place had none... No wait, they had Ford, Peugeot, Citron, BMW, Mercedes etc. The Unions weren't the people designing the cars, or marketing them. The 1970s saw people switch on mass to European and American cars. Also British Leyland Motor Groups absurdly was competing within its own companies for market share (which also undermines the general principle of mass production). BLMC wasn't just undermined by the Unions demands, the company was a f**king mess at understanding how business operates, how marketing works and how to utilise mass production. You don't tend to see other motor car companies produce cars in direct completion with their own models, or with such frequency as British Leyland Motor Company did. Also the Unions weren't behind the Rover P8 and P9 (another total waste of funds). It was 'Red Robbo' who brought the company to it's knees with the turmoil he generated. As I mentioned before between 1978 and 1979 there were over 500 walkouts with industrial action ruthlessly enforced by picket lines and shouts of "Scab" and worse at anyone who dared to challenge the rule of the mob. The Longbridge plant in Birmingham whic once employed 18,000 people was almost impossible to run with the culture one of political oppression. Edited by Willo (06 Nov 2017 4.30pm)
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Nov 17 4.26pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Where as the competition in the market place had none... No wait, they had Ford, Peugeot, Citron, BMW, Mercedes etc. The Unions weren't the people designing the cars, or marketing them. The 1970s saw people switch on mass to European and American cars. Also British Leyland Motor Groups absurdly was competing within its own companies for market share (which also undermines the general principle of mass production). BLMC wasn't just undermined by the Unions demands, the company was a f**king mess at understanding how business operates, how marketing works and how to utilise mass production. You don't tend to see other motor car companies produce cars in direct completion with their own models, or with such frequency as British Leyland Motor Company did. Also the Unions weren't behind the Rover P8 and P9 (another total waste of funds). There was strike over which union's members should put three screws into a dashboard and one by polishers because a car was retuned for re-polishing
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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