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 tome  Inner Tantalus Time. 21 Oct 17 2.55pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Not really. He hadn't murdered British citizens as far as I remember. Are you seriously suggesting Pinochet's crimes are less important than Mugabe's because of the identity of the victims? Seems you were trying to make a different point but I'm not sure what it is.
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Stirlingsays  21 Oct 17 4.36pm |
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Originally posted by tome
Are you seriously suggesting Pinochet's crimes are less important than Mugabe's because of the identity of the victims? Seems you were trying to make a different point but I'm not sure what it is.
Not less important as human beings, but less important to me than those I have a connection to. You are no different. If a person down the street that you know dies it doesn't impact you as would a member of your family dying does. This is just a further extension of that. All human life matters but not all human life impacts you the same. If that isn't true....and you view all life as of equal importance to you.....well I respect that but you really should be an aid worker in Africa or India or a war zone......because that's where the poor are dying quicker than anywhere else. Those are important people....but I'm not one of them. I'd also expect you not to support the EU as their restrictive trade practices mean that poor people in Africa can't compete and hence more go poor and hungry. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Oct 2017 4.42pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Beanyboysmd 21 Oct 17 5.01pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The EU? Ireland??? Iceland??? Japan??? Scotland in 1300's? USA in the 1920's??? Renaissance Western Europe??? No idea who you mean bud...
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 21 Oct 17 5.03pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
A good appointment. Zimbabwe has a good health service run for its citizens on an equal basis. It is like other third world countries doing the best it can with what resources it has. I remember the NHS sending staff to Cuba to see what a good health service could do. Should be a shot in the arm for Mugabe to do more but he won't be running to borrow and bankrupt his country. Remind you of somewhere?
Edited by hedgehog50 (21 Oct 2017 5.19pm)
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Beanyboysmd 21 Oct 17 5.14pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Not less important as human beings, but less important to me than those I have a connection to. You are no different. If a person down the street that you know dies it doesn't impact you as would a member of your family dying does. This is just a further extension of that. All human life matters but not all human life impacts you the same. If that isn't true....and you view all life as of equal importance to you.....well I respect that but you really should be an aid worker in Africa or India or a war zone......because that's where the poor are dying quicker than anywhere else. Those are important people....but I'm not one of them. I'd also expect you not to support the EU as their restrictive trade practices mean that poor people in Africa can't compete and hence more go poor and hungry. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Oct 2017 4.42pm) Africa is experiencing record growth due to heavy investment by the current superpowers, main ones being EU, USA, South America and recently in a massive way, China... In the past, the far east had volume of population and low wages which made it ideal for cheap labour, huge infrastructure projects were set up to make that happen. Since China has developed so drastically in the last few years, it has needed places with even lower wages for manufacturing. Africa has been its main target and has invested in infrastructure in the same way and as a result the improvements have been drastic. The Eu has been committed to development in 3rd world countries since its conception and have made massive strides in trade that benefits both parties. America and Russia have done the same for political reasons. All of which have resulted in most African countries to consistently have double digit growth each year. Now ask yourself honestly, what is the UK's record in Africa been like? And given the choice, would most countries trust trade deals with us? The rest of the conversation was some vacuous toss about the value of human life and im not getting sucked into a pseudo-intellectual conversation about it...
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| Stirlingsays 21 Oct 17 5.14pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
A good appointment. Zimbabwe has a good health service run for its citizens on an equal basis. It is like other third world countries doing the best it can with what resources it has. Those are disgraceful comments. They can only be made by those ignorant to history...and hence don't care about it, or with contempt for the poor or they are stupid or perhaps any mixture of those three.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 21 Oct 17 5.15pm |
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Originally posted by tome
Are you seriously suggesting Pinochet's crimes are less important than Mugabe's because of the identity of the victims? Seems you were trying to make a different point but I'm not sure what it is. No. Just less significant to the safety and security of Britain.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 21 Oct 17 5.20pm |
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Originally posted by Beanyboysmd
Africa is experiencing record growth due to heavy investment by the current superpowers, main ones being EU, USA, South America and recently in a massive way, China... In the past, the far east had volume of population and low wages which made it ideal for cheap labour, huge infrastructure projects were set up to make that happen. Since China has developed so drastically in the last few years, it has needed places with even lower wages for manufacturing. Africa has been its main target and has invested in infrastructure in the same way and as a result the improvements have been drastic. The Eu has been committed to development in 3rd world countries since its conception and have made massive strides in trade that benefits both parties. America and Russia have done the same for political reasons. All of which have resulted in most African countries to consistently have double digit growth each year. Now ask yourself honestly, what is the UK's record in Africa been like? And given the choice, would most countries trust trade deals with us? The rest of the conversation was some vacuous toss about the value of human life and im not getting sucked into a pseudo-intellectual conversation about it... A lot better than other European countries. We were actually the good guys in relative terms during the empire building days.
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| Stirlingsays 21 Oct 17 5.37pm |
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Originally posted by Beanyboysmd
Africa is experiencing record growth due to heavy investment by the current superpowers, main ones being EU, USA, South America and recently in a massive way, China... In the past, the far east had volume of population and low wages which made it ideal for cheap labour, huge infrastructure projects were set up to make that happen. Since China has developed so drastically in the last few years, it has needed places with even lower wages for manufacturing. Africa has been its main target and has invested in infrastructure in the same way and as a result the improvements have been drastic. The Eu has been committed to development in 3rd world countries since its conception and have made massive strides in trade that benefits both parties. America and Russia have done the same for political reasons. All of which have resulted in most African countries to consistently have double digit growth each year. Now ask yourself honestly, what is the UK's record in Africa been like? And given the choice, would most countries trust trade deals with us? The rest of the conversation was some vacuous toss about the value of human life and im not getting sucked into a pseudo-intellectual conversation about it... I'll link you to the poorest countries in the world. Notice anything about that list? The EU's agricultural policy has caused much harm to Africa's ability to break into EU markets......I'll just state that obvious fact a second time. This country has criticised that in the past. That's all I need to do to defend my comments that you replied to. It is true that from a low base Africa's economies have been improving as foreigners naturally continue to take advantage of their resources. The improvements are much better than the alternatives...though they are obviously more marked within African countries with more resources than in others. But for you to write a post that completely ignores the reality between the third and first world is...well, it is what it is. As for you being selective about which pseudo-intellectual conversations you wish to engage in....well, if you are going to be like that then that cuts both ways matey. But I will say this: Imperialism is not a good aspect of human nature but it is an aspect of all human natures. The British Empire was the most successful one in terms of land size......But most successful empires of the past...excluding the Mongols....only managed the extent of their reach by investment into the lands they controlled. The British introduced much of the infrastructural both physical and governmental that is continued with today. Life within many Africa countries took a dive once we left....but I agree with self determination so I have no issues with us leaving. Outside of aid....which this country is amongst the most generous in the world. All countries invest into other countries out of self interest.....no other purpose. I'll wait while you find a situation where that didn't happen....I'd be waiting a while....So your comments about China or any other country are laughable. We will have many willing partners in trade with Africa and questionable opinions like yours won't amount to a hill of beans.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Kermit8  Hevon 21 Oct 17 5.55pm |
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Carving up Africa and putting down random borders thus putting power in the hands of the few is what has really done for it not the EU. Ours and others colonial past and iniquitous mis-management. The EU is to blame for WW1 though. And The Black Death.
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| Stirlingsays 21 Oct 17 6.00pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Carving up Africa and putting down random borders thus putting power in the hands of the few is what has really done for it not the EU. Ours and others colonial past and iniquitous mis-management. The EU is to blame for WW1 though. And The Black Death. Tell me Kermy, which hands was power in before all these evil westerners turned up?.....Do you think it was in the hands of the many then?....whatever the f*** that means anyway because that's never happened anyway. Imperialism isn't good, but the weak are exploited by the strong.....so if you're not strong enough then that's the failure of your leaders and your culture because regardless human nature is going to take you.....the colours of the flag they fly is immaterial.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 21 Oct 17 6.05pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
The EU is to blame for WW1 though. And The Black Death. Once again Kermy....the EU isn't Europe. I know that's how you think but they are two different entities.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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