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Terror attack - Barcelona

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hedgehog50 Croydon 18 Aug 17 7.38am
Originally posted by Ray in Houston The last, widespread terror campaign in the UK was solved - after harsh policing/sentencing and military intervention had failed - by reaching a political solution that removed (as far as possible) the sources of the anger fueling the campaign. This has been the pattern for many similar issues in modern times. Here, military action hasn't dented the threat and may even have exacerbated it. Also, unfortunately, I have no idea if a political solution is even possible - even if our current leaders could effect one - which I very much doubt they could. So, like a partially deflated balloon, every time we squeeze one place, another side will pop out. People like you would have them round for a chat and a nice cup of tea - bit like Chamberlain at Munich - that went well didn't it. Or perhaps you could pull down a few more statues that might offend them. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 18 Aug 17 7.38am

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

The last, widespread terror campaign in the UK was solved - after harsh policing/sentencing and military intervention had failed - by reaching a political solution that removed (as far as possible) the sources of the anger fueling the campaign. This has been the pattern for many similar issues in modern times.

Here, military action hasn't dented the threat and may even have exacerbated it. Also, unfortunately, I have no idea if a political solution is even possible - even if our current leaders could effect one - which I very much doubt they could. So, like a partially deflated balloon, every time we squeeze one place, another side will pop out.

People like you would have them round for a chat and a nice cup of tea - bit like Chamberlain at Munich -
that went well didn't it. Or perhaps you could pull down a few more statues that might offend them.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 18 Aug 17 7.39am
Originally posted by YT Maybe something akin to this: Spanish police stop second attack after 13 killed in Barcelona [Link] but imagine what would happen in this country. Cries of "Police execution squads", years of investigation and spouting by human rights lawyers, an eventual Panorama documentary to undermine the Police...etc Edited by YT (18 Aug 2017 7.03am) Spot on - I would add John Pilger telling us how it is all our fault of course. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 18 Aug 17 7.39am

Originally posted by YT

Maybe something akin to this: Spanish police stop second attack after 13 killed in Barcelona
[Link]
but imagine what would happen in this country. Cries of "Police execution squads", years of investigation and spouting by human rights lawyers, an eventual Panorama documentary to undermine the Police...etc

Edited by YT (18 Aug 2017 7.03am)

Spot on - I would add John Pilger telling us how it is all our fault of course.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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leifandersonshair Newport 18 Aug 17 8.27am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 People like you would have them round for a chat and a nice cup of tea - bit like Chamberlain at Munich - that went well didn't it. Or perhaps you could pull down a few more statues that might offend them. And people like you would have anyone even a bit suspect, or of a particular religion, rounded up and interned, regardless of age, gender or guilt. Maybe a balanced approach somewhere between the 2 more appropriate? Or shall we just adopt the old 'hang them high' approach?
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leifandersonshair

Newport 18 Aug 17 8.27am

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Originally posted by hedgehog50

And people like you would have anyone even a bit suspect, or of a particular religion, rounded up and interned, regardless of age, gender or guilt.

Maybe a balanced approach somewhere between the 2 more appropriate? Or shall we just adopt the old 'hang them high' approach?

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Qwijibo Bournemouth 18 Aug 17 9.44am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 People like you would have them round for a chat and a nice cup of tea - bit like Chamberlain at Munich - that went well didn't it. Or perhaps you could pull down a few more statues that might offend them. Deleted for diplomacy Edited by Qwijibo (18 Aug 2017 9.45am)
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Qwijibo

Bournemouth 18 Aug 17 9.44am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Deleted for diplomacy

Edited by Qwijibo (18 Aug 2017 9.45am)

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Stirlingsays 18 Aug 17 9.50am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 People like you would have them round for a chat and a nice cup of tea - bit like Chamberlain at Munich - that went well didn't it. Or perhaps you could pull down a few more statues that might offend them. It's a fair point. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

18 Aug 17 9.50am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

It's a fair point.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 18 Aug 17 10.16am
Originally posted by leifandersonshair And people like you would have anyone even a bit suspect, or of a particular religion, rounded up and interned, regardless of age, gender or guilt. Maybe a balanced approach somewhere between the 2 more appropriate? Or shall we just adopt the old 'hang them high' approach? Can you describe what that would be exactly?
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Hrolf The Ganger

18 Aug 17 10.16am

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Originally posted by leifandersonshair

And people like you would have anyone even a bit suspect, or of a particular religion, rounded up and interned, regardless of age, gender or guilt.

Maybe a balanced approach somewhere between the 2 more appropriate? Or shall we just adopt the old 'hang them high' approach?

Can you describe what that would be exactly?

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hedgehog50 Croydon 18 Aug 17 11.36am
Originally posted by leifandersonshair And people like you would have anyone even a bit suspect, or of a particular religion, rounded up and interned, regardless of age, gender or guilt. Maybe a balanced approach somewhere between the 2 more appropriate? Or shall we just adopt the old 'hang them high' approach? Really? Where did I say that? Balanced approach? What will you talk to them and negotiate about - whether gay people should be thrown off roofs or merely beheaded? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 18 Aug 17 11.36am

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

And people like you would have anyone even a bit suspect, or of a particular religion, rounded up and interned, regardless of age, gender or guilt.

Maybe a balanced approach somewhere between the 2 more appropriate? Or shall we just adopt the old 'hang them high' approach?

Really? Where did I say that?
Balanced approach? What will you talk to them and negotiate about - whether gay people should be thrown off roofs or merely beheaded?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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elgrande bedford 18 Aug 17 12.45pm
Originally posted by YT Maybe something akin to this: Spanish police stop second attack after 13 killed in Barcelona [Link] but imagine what would happen in this country. Cries of "Police execution squads", years of investigation and spouting by human rights lawyers, an eventual Panorama documentary to undermine the Police...etc Edited by YT (18 Aug 2017 7.03am) You only have to look back at Gibraltar to see what would happen. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.
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elgrande

bedford 18 Aug 17 12.45pm

Originally posted by YT

Edited by YT (18 Aug 2017 7.03am)

You only have to look back at Gibraltar to see what would happen.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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elgrande bedford 18 Aug 17 12.46pm
Originally posted by YT Maybe something akin to this: Spanish police stop second attack after 13 killed in Barcelona [Link] but imagine what would happen in this country. Cries of "Police execution squads", years of investigation and spouting by human rights lawyers, an eventual Panorama documentary to undermine the Police...etc Edited by YT (18 Aug 2017 7.03am) Also all the legal aid they would be awarded,unlike the relatives of the Hyde park bombing victims. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.
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elgrande

bedford 18 Aug 17 12.46pm

Originally posted by YT

Edited by YT (18 Aug 2017 7.03am)

Also all the legal aid they would be awarded,unlike the relatives of the Hyde park bombing victims.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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steeleye20 Croydon 18 Aug 17 12.50pm
The government is facing questions over transparency after almost £2 million in aid and defence funding was given to security projects in Egypt, including support for policing, the criminal justice system and the treatment of juvenile detainees. The news comes with Egypt’s security forces under fire from human rights groups for routine disappearances, the torture of detainees, and the jailing of political opponents and journalists. An example of British foreign policy for you.
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steeleye20

Croydon 18 Aug 17 12.50pm

The government is facing questions over transparency after almost £2 million in aid and defence funding was given to security projects in Egypt, including support for policing, the criminal justice system and the treatment of juvenile detainees.

The news comes with Egypt’s security forces under fire from human rights groups for routine disappearances, the torture of detainees, and the jailing of political opponents and journalists.

An example of British foreign policy for you.

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leifandersonshair Newport 18 Aug 17 1.02pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Really? Where did I say that? Balanced approach? What will you talk to them and negotiate about - whether gay people should be thrown off roofs or merely beheaded? You deliberately misrepresented someone else in the thread with a strawman argument- I did the same. Silly isn't it? The point being- there are more than the 2 equally stupid responses at either end of the spectrum- the 'invite them round for a cup of tea' approach and the 'shoot them all dead for being a bit different' one. Firstly- people who do this kind of thing are nutjobs who deserve everything coming to them. I am suggesting no other approach than punishment in the harshest terms for them (if they survive). Secondly- the UK governments 'Prevent' program was a great idea in theory, badly handled. However, it is the sort of program that should be being looked at as a way to prevent more of these madmen. Does that clarify things? Or would you care to completely misrepresent me with a snide remark or two?
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leifandersonshair

Newport 18 Aug 17 1.02pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Really? Where did I say that?
Balanced approach? What will you talk to them and negotiate about - whether gay people should be thrown off roofs or merely beheaded?

You deliberately misrepresented someone else in the thread with a strawman argument- I did the same. Silly isn't it?

The point being- there are more than the 2 equally stupid responses at either end of the spectrum- the 'invite them round for a cup of tea' approach and the 'shoot them all dead for being a bit different' one.

Firstly- people who do this kind of thing are nutjobs who deserve everything coming to them. I am suggesting no other approach than punishment in the harshest terms for them (if they survive). Secondly- the UK governments 'Prevent' program was a great idea in theory, badly handled. However, it is the sort of program that should be being looked at as a way to prevent more of these madmen.

Does that clarify things? Or would you care to completely misrepresent me with a snide remark or two?

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Stirlingsays 18 Aug 17 1.06pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The government is facing questions over transparency after almost £2 million in aid and defence funding was given to security projects in Egypt, including support for policing, the criminal justice system and the treatment of juvenile detainees. The news comes with Egypt’s security forces under fire from human rights groups for routine disappearances, the torture of detainees, and the jailing of political opponents and journalists. An example of British foreign policy for you. I don't support real human rights abuses...by that I mean physical violence by the state....I don't support that against an individual but I also know what kind of government Egypt would have if the army didn't rule there. Don't think for one second the amount of human right abuses would go down one second.....they would just be transferred to another set of people. So, it's like many of our relationships around the world, it's one of practical reality. Ethical foreign policy has you only trading with the west and ultimately that makes China and Russia very rich. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

18 Aug 17 1.06pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The news comes with Egypt’s security forces under fire from human rights groups for routine disappearances, the torture of detainees, and the jailing of political opponents and journalists.

An example of British foreign policy for you.

I don't support real human rights abuses...by that I mean physical violence by the state....I don't support that against an individual but I also know what kind of government Egypt would have if the army didn't rule there.

Don't think for one second the amount of human right abuses would go down one second.....they would just be transferred to another set of people.

So, it's like many of our relationships around the world, it's one of practical reality.

Ethical foreign policy has you only trading with the west and ultimately that makes China and Russia very rich.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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