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 Dan89  Se25 16 Aug 17 11.52am |
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It did take 8 games for big Sam to get what he wants. My concern is that in those 8 games or so. The players lose confidence and therefore become worse. Surely it was apparent to mr parish that this was de Boer philosophy. Wins brings confidence. If we can nick a win then the palace believe. There was a good debate of the debate on skysports with Ian wright and Andy Townsend. Ian wright said about the selhurst crowd want excitement and don't want Zaha standing upfront in a mark position. They think he could be successful if we mix it up rather than relying on a possession style and the end of the day. Benteke one of the best target men in the league.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 16 Aug 17 11.58am |
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Originally posted by Dan89
It did take 8 games for big Sam to get what he wants. My concern is that in those 8 games or so. The players lose confidence and therefore become worse. Surely it was apparent to mr parish that this was de Boer philosophy. Wins brings confidence. If we can nick a win then the palace believe. There was a good debate of the debate on skysports with Ian wright and Andy Townsend. Ian wright said about the selhurst crowd want excitement and don't want Zaha standing upfront in a mark position. They think he could be successful if we mix it up rather than relying on a possession style and the end of the day. Benteke one of the best target men in the league. The Liverpool style never suited Benteke, maybe our new style won't suit him either.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Aug 17 12.08pm |
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Originally posted by Mstrobez
I'm refusing to jump on this drama queen knee jerk tide just yet but I have to say from the minute he was appointed something just felt as if we got the man for Southampton & Southampton got the man for us. Time will tell but if this system is genius or complete dog s***, I'm certain we won't know until at least 7-8 games in. Unfortunately the fickle nature of a lot of our fans will probably not afford him that if results don't pick up as early as, well Liverpool even. That is exactly what I thought and I believe it's no coincidence we announced Frank the day before Southampton announced Pellegrino. We had to. I can't blame either for wanting Southampton over us but I don't believe the honesty of Frank's agent phoning Parish to say Frank wasn't interested in Southampton. That smells of BS. I agree Southampton made the choice and I feel the wrong one for both of us, but our's could be more damaging. But this is where we're at so we have to try and make it work until it looks like it won't. I think it'll start to get uncomfortable if we're on 3 losses after Swansea and then if the next 2 games are bad it'll be really uncomfortable with 3 top 4 sides to play in a row. A bit similar to Pardew there. I think Parish should've been onto Silva the morning after Sam resigned and Dyche went for the jugular at Chelsea so he's no fool but we are where we are. Come on then Frank.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Aug 17 12.10pm |
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Originally posted by bexleydave
'Results over style' and 'gradually' are what Frank promised so we'll see if he's true to his word or ignores his own words like he has with the attributes of the squad.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Aug 17 12.15pm |
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Originally posted by balfmalark
He has said before that he respects results over style. Cant really fault him for at least trying to play a more passing game at home to PL new boys. I think he's learned a very tough lesson from the weekend and hopefully we'll start playing to our strengths and introducing new things slowly Sorry, posted before seeing this.
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 16 Aug 17 12.20pm |
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I think the biggest thing he'll have learnt from the weekend is how difficult it is to change the ethos of this club. Not just teaching players who are used to lumping it to get it down and pass. The vast majority of our supporters are convinced we can't play possession football, and therefore are less patient than other clubs when the team tries it. The fact he hasn't been supported in the market so far is disgraceful. We need at least three more players to transition quickly to what he wants, and yet the only signing we've really made is some 20 year old from Ajax. He should be given until Christmas until we talk about sacking him. What he's trying to do is overhaul the philosophy of the whole club, and those expecting him to do it in one game are deluded. But that is the nature of the game, and if things don't improve in the next 6 games I expect to see us go mad like Inter, abort mission and end up back on square one. Edited by serial thriller (16 Aug 2017 12.21pm)
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chateauferret  16 Aug 17 12.29pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
He should be given until Christmas until we talk about sacking him. What he's trying to do is overhaul the philosophy of the whole club, and those expecting him to do it in one game are deluded. But that is the nature of the game, and if things don't improve in the next 6 games I expect to see us go mad like Inter, abort mission and end up back on square one. I do agree that you can't really talk about the boot until about December. But we must have a plan B. Some of what went on in that one game was pretty worrying. He chucked inexperienced players in at the deep end without the right support around them and kept an experienced and vocal defender (Tomkins) out of it. He didn't really change things when it started going t*** up except to put Townsend on for Milivojevic, there was no plan B just more desperation to get forward. He didn't deal with Wilf being taken out of the game. And at the end of the fiasco he chucked the players under the bus. He looked more like Pardew after two years than like Allardyce after two matches. We will see whether he has the humility, sense and grace to learn lessons, address the demands of playing the PL instead of just insisting on his style, and listen to advice. If he carries on down this road with blinkers in this place then by December we will be adrift, without Sammy Lee and with little prospect of attracting anyone new in January. Persist with him after that and we're toast. Edited by chateauferret (16 Aug 2017 12.38pm)
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 16 Aug 17 12.36pm |
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Originally posted by chateauferret
I do agree that you can't really talk about the boot until about December. But we must have a plan B. But some of what went on in that one game was pretty worrying. He chucked inexperienced players in at the deep end without the right support around him and kept an experienced and vocal defender (Tomkins) out of it. He didn't really change things when it started going t*** up except to put Townsend on for Milivojevic, there was no plan B just more desperation to get forward. He didn't deal with Wilf being taken out of the game. And at the end of the fiasco he chucked the players under the bus. He looked more like Pardew after two years than like Allardyce after two matches.
I don't deny any of that. The lack of leaders at the back is the biggest concern for me, pretty surprising given that the manager himself was such a defensive leader in his time. But has there ever been a Palace manager in my time who hasn't had games where I think they don't have a f*cking clue? No. Frank is clearly trying to mould a system. In this league, even a few holes in that system are ruthlessly exposed. But the negativity around the club after one f*cking game is ridiculous.
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| Mstrobez 16 Aug 17 12.51pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
I don't deny any of that. The lack of leaders at the back is the biggest concern for me, pretty surprising given that the manager himself was such a defensive leader in his time. But has there ever been a Palace manager in my time who hasn't had games where I think they don't have a f*cking clue? No. Frank is clearly trying to mould a system. In this league, even a few holes in that system are ruthlessly exposed. But the negativity around the club after one f*cking game is ridiculous. Finally a sense of reason on the HOL. Agree completely, the reaction in general has been absolutely pathetic.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 16 Aug 17 1.09pm |
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Originally posted by Mstrobez
Finally a sense of reason on the HOL. Agree completely, the reaction in general has been absolutely pathetic. On Saturday I heard negative comments made in earshot of Steve Parish probably designed so that he was aware of them.Rather toxic after an abject defeat and perhaps in the 'Cold light of day' they don't have the same opinions.
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| Painter Croydon 16 Aug 17 1.11pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
I don't deny any of that. The lack of leaders at the back is the biggest concern for me, pretty surprising given that the manager himself was such a defensive leader in his time. But has there ever been a Palace manager in my time who hasn't had games where I think they don't have a f*cking clue? No. Frank is clearly trying to mould a system. In this league, even a few holes in that system are ruthlessly exposed. But the negativity around the club after one f*cking game is ridiculous. I agree the posts this week have been boarding hysterical in panic. It appears that most supporters expect us to beat all but the top 6-7 teams, it has never been the case and never will be. De Boer is trying to change the playing style, which has to be admired, as the old system didn't work as we were found out by teams. Change takes a time and lessons will be learnt on the way. If we are to progress as a team, we had to change our style. Give him sometime to settle things down, it's a long season.
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| chateauferret 16 Aug 17 1.12pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
I don't deny any of that. The lack of leaders at the back is the biggest concern for me, pretty surprising given that the manager himself was such a defensive leader in his time. But has there ever been a Palace manager in my time who hasn't had games where I think they don't have a f*cking clue? No. Frank is clearly trying to mould a system. In this league, even a few holes in that system are ruthlessly exposed. But the negativity around the club after one f*cking game is ridiculous. Yeah. Hopefully de Boer will be appalled by that and know what he has to do to fix it. He certainly has the technical knowledge, question is whether he has the temperament and nous. Really think he should have used Tomkins. Even Allardyce had games where we thought he'd lost it. But at least he had been there before and he had quality players coming in (although at that point it was fair to wonder if they would click). One turd does not a toilet make, but it won't take long before we know whether de Boer can adapt or not. And those eight games of Allardyce getting his system were not eight pathetic thumpings at home against poor sides; Allardyce only had one of those; and de Boer has already had his.
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