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DutchEagleJohan Vlissingen, Netherlands 26 Jul 17 10.08am | |
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Pogba I believe went on a free Originally posted by Dan89
This now becoming more common, sides are prepared to sell their younger player but this gives them some protection, in case the player becomes excellent. Imagine Man Utd put a buy back clause in pogba deal, it would of saved them a lot of money.
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DutchEagleJohan Vlissingen, Netherlands 26 Jul 17 10.12am | |
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Fully agree. City and Chelsea are prime examples of disgusting behavior in that respect. Any season there are about a dozen players here in the Dutch league on loan and the aim of that is not at all to prepare them for first team football at the parent club but to make financial profit. Van Ginkel even publicly stated Chelsea forced him to extend his contract before agreeing to another loan at PSV and he fully realizes he will never ever play for them again. Originally posted by EagleinSF
This is a growing (and worrying) trend. TBH I don't think it will stop (or decline) until there are limits put on the amount of players in the professional leagues that you can have out on loan. This would curb some of the hoovering up of young talent.
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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 26 Jul 17 10.20am | |
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Originally posted by DutchEagleJohan
Fully agree. City and Chelsea are prime examples of disgusting behavior in that respect. Any season there are about a dozen players here in the Dutch league on loan and the aim of that is not at all to prepare them for first team football at the parent club but to make financial profit. Van Ginkel even publicly stated Chelsea forced him to extend his contract before agreeing to another loan at PSV and he fully realizes he will never ever play for them again. What is wrong with a football club making a "Financial profit" ? In the situation described, the parent club makes a profit, the player benefits from first team football and the club he plays for gets the use of a good player.
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Midlands Eagle 26 Jul 17 10.55am | |
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Perhaps it's time that the authorities looked closely at the whole loan system and perhaps made changes to the laws to stop the richer clubs buying up players and stockpiling them. I would suggest a limit to the number of players over the age of (say) 21 that a club can loan out at any one time.
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Palace in the Blood 26 Jul 17 10.58am | |
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Originally posted by Willo What is wrong with a football club making a "Financial profit" ? In the situation described, the parent club makes a profit, the player benefits from first team football and the club he plays for gets the use of a good player.
For instance if we decided that one of our young players needed first team football to progress and we couldn't do that. We have 2 options either to loan out or sell with a sell on clause. We did later with a couple of youngsters last year effectively free but if sold on we get a hefty percentage. Problem then is if they get released the clause goes with them. This has advantage for all both clubs and player. A young player who may not be good enough for EPL football gets at worst a career at a lower level, lower league club gets a "prospect" with ability to sell on and selling club gets a possibility of return on academy costs. The difference with a buy back clause is that selling club gets a good price to start with and a guarantee that they can get the player back if sucessful for below market value. Thus the big club gets all the benefits and none of the risks. If it is correct that Arsenal want a buy back clause for Chambers. They want a figure in excess of £20 million, this is not peanuts so to want a buy back clause at slightly above this,is wrong in my view. I think the FA should look at this as it the big clubs using there economic muscle against the slightly smaller. I have nothing against a player being sold with first refusal on any future sale being given to selling club however this should be at market value. The Loan system is also being manipulated by the big clubs eg Van Ginkel and Chelsea insisting he signs a new contract before yet another loan. If a player is loaned out during contract, the club gets a loan fee and receiving club pay his salary so what is risk for loaning club? He gets injured and they make a loss on any initial transfer fee? Insurance cover this.I think that FA should look at introducing rules that players who have been loaned out for more than 50% of contract or have not played more than 25 first team games can not be forced to sign a new contract. They should be allowed to find a new club if they want with fee being decided by tribunal if not agreed by clubs
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Palace in the Blood 26 Jul 17 11.02am | |
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/quote] Originally posted by Palace in the Blood
For instance if we decided that one of our young players needed first team football to potentially progress and we couldn't do that. We have 2 options either to loan out or sell with a sell on clause. We did this with a couple of youngsters last year effectively free but if sold on we get a hefty percentage. Problem then is if they get released the clause goes with them. This has advantage for all both clubs and player. A young player who may not be good enough for EPL football gets at worst a career at a lower level, lower league club gets a "prospect" with ability to sell on and selling club gets a possibility of return on academy costs. The difference with a buy back clause is that selling club gets a good price to start with and a guarantee that they can get the player back if sucesful for below market value. Thus the big club gets all the benefits and none of the risks. If it is correct that Arsenal want a buy back clause for Chambers. They want a figure in excess of £20 million, this is not peanuts so to want a buy back clause at slightly above this,is wrong in my view. I think the FA should look at this as it the big clubs using there economic muscle against the slightly smaller. I have nothing against a player being sold with first refusal on any future sale being given to selling club however this should be at market value. The Loan system is also being manipulated by the big clubs eg Van Ginkel and Chelsea insisting he signs a new contract before yet another loan. If a player is loaned out during contract, the club gets a loan fee and receiving club pay his salary so what is risk for loaning club? He gets injured and they make a loss on any initial transfer fee? Insurance cover this.I think that FA should look at introducing rules that players who have been loaned out for more than 50% of contract or have not played more than 25 first team games can not be forced to sign a new contract. They should be allowed to find a new club if they want with fee being decided by tribunal if not agreed by clubs[
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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 26 Jul 17 11.11am | |
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Originally posted by Palace in the Blood
For instance if we decided that one of our young players needed first team football to progress and we couldn't do that. We have 2 options either to loan out or sell with a sell on clause. We did later with a couple of youngsters last year effectively free but if sold on we get a hefty percentage. Problem then is if they get released the clause goes with them. This has advantage for all both clubs and player. A young player who may not be good enough for EPL football gets at worst a career at a lower level, lower league club gets a "prospect" with ability to sell on and selling club gets a possibility of return on academy costs. The difference with a buy back clause is that selling club gets a good price to start with and a guarantee that they can get the player back if sucessful for below market value. Thus the big club gets all the benefits and none of the risks. If it is correct that Arsenal want a buy back clause for Chambers. They want a figure in excess of £20 million, this is not peanuts so to want a buy back clause at slightly above this,is wrong in my view. I think the FA should look at this as it the big clubs using there economic muscle against the slightly smaller. I have nothing against a player being sold with first refusal on any future sale being given to selling club however this should be at market value. The Loan system is also being manipulated by the big clubs eg Van Ginkel and Chelsea insisting he signs a new contract before yet another loan. If a player is loaned out during contract, the club gets a loan fee and receiving club pay his salary so what is risk for loaning club? He gets injured and they make a loss on any initial transfer fee? Insurance cover this.I think that FA should look at introducing rules that players who have been loaned out for more than 50% of contract or have not played more than 25 first team games can not be forced to sign a new contract. They should be allowed to find a new club if they want with fee being decided by tribunal if not agreed by clubs Without getting into protracted and fiesty debate let's just say we are on "Opposite sides of the house" on this matter. Gout in hand precludes me from lengthy keying ! Edited by Willo (26 Jul 2017 11.33am)
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DutchEagleJohan Vlissingen, Netherlands 26 Jul 17 12.16pm | |
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I could write a book about everything that's wrong with it. Players as young as 12 being poached away with their parents offered a job, may promising youth players never ever making it out of their trusted environment, financially powerful clubs having over 50 players out on loan, lesser league's like the Dutch one having even their mediocre plus players taken away by foreign clubs with buying power and not because they want the player for the first team but to make business. In my eyes it is a s wrong as it gets. Originally posted by Willo
What is wrong with a football club making a "Financial profit" ? In the situation described, the parent club makes a profit, the player benefits from first team football and the club he plays for gets the use of a good player.
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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 26 Jul 17 12.31pm | |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Really? If you support a big club you mean. The whole thing is being manipulated by big clubs and their greed. yeah really. good for the game because the current loan system is a catastrophe for talent development. every club buying a Chelsea youth player simply needs to evaluate the buyback when bidding. not that hard.
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Booted Eagle Bristol 26 Jul 17 1.02pm | |
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Doubt whether the government would complain as they have locked themselves into such a deal with Hinckley Points electricity, lol. Be surprised if Palace and consumers gain any positives in such deals as the odds are stacked in favour of the guys with the cash. Who knows what a commodity like a football transfer fee or electricity is worth in a couple of years ? Set it at a very low level and you are quids in, particularly if the trend, which is true for the above 2 is up.
“ [T]here are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know. ” |
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 26 Jul 17 1.35pm | |
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Well said by Palace in the blood.
COYP |
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Goldfiinger Just down the road 26 Jul 17 4.50pm | |
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Originally posted by Willo
What is wrong with a football club making a "Financial profit" ? In the situation described, the parent club makes a profit, the player benefits from first team football and the club he plays for gets the use of a good player. Becuase it means all a super club has to do is buy all the young talent and watch while the other clubs pay to make them superstars before they leave... Let's pay £18m for Chambers and then once he's better Arsenal can have him back for £28m. Transfer inflation would likely mean he's worth more than that anyway.
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