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Martin McGuinness
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 thegreatlardino  crawley/selsey 21 Mar 17 11.34am |
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one mans terrorist the other mans freedom fighter and all that....but byeeee hope it was painful, like all the deaths in the troubles were to the families of the persons blown up & shot when he was a member of the PIRA ruling council
Sometimes I set out for Ludlow |
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Kermit8  Hevon 21 Mar 17 11.41am |
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You have to remember that the majority Catholic population were being treated, and had been for a long time, something akin to the Jews in Germany in the mid 1930-s before it all kicked off. Discriminated against with housing and jobs. Burnt out of their homes plenty were too and when they decided to go on peaceful civil rights marches they were attacked by Protestant thugs, the police and special reserves all in uniform. Many thousands of young people joined the IRA at that point. Must have seemed like the logical choice. McGuinness was a murderer. No ifs or buts. But then again there were murderers on all sides; In the RUC, the Army, the loyalists and The Republicans with our own Government taking part in killings too. No one can claim the moral high ground.
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| the_mcanuff_stuff Caterham 21 Mar 17 11.43am |
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Originally posted by OknotOK
I don't think anyone should forget (or forgive) his actions in the 60s/70s (and probably 80s no matter what he said publicly), but there does also have to be a recognition that he played a vital role in moving the dialogue forward - in moving people away from violence and guns. I've said it before on here, the man was a scumbag, back in the day. But him and Paisley were instrumental in the Good Friday agreement and for that, thank you Martin McGuinness. The good doesn't cancel out the bad, but as someone on here said, nothing in life is black and white.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 21 Mar 17 11.46am |
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There was never any justification for the campaign of murdering. The history of Ireland has been a small minority trying to pursue an agenda with violence while most people just wanted to get on with their lives. The British do not come out of it with any credit either aside from the Good Friday agreement.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 21 Mar 17 11.47am |
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A ferocious terrorist/war adversary and a ferocious peace maker. The man was interesting I'll give him that.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Mar 17 11.49am |
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Originally posted by thegreatlardino
one mans terrorist the other mans freedom fighter and all that....but byeeee hope it was painful, like all the deaths in the troubles were to the families of the persons blown up & shot when he was a member of the PIRA ruling council I'm not sure the Provisional IRA were ever freedom fighters as such in the classic sense. The IRA, yes, but the provisional origins were more of a 'self defence force', in that they split from the official IRA to 'protect Catholic communities from the 'burning outs' and things generally spiralled from there.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 21 Mar 17 11.52am |
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Originally posted by the_mcanuff_stuff
I've said it before on here, the man was a scumbag, back in the day. But him and Paisley were instrumental in the Good Friday agreement and for that, thank you Martin McGuinness. The good doesn't cancel out the bad, but as someone on here said, nothing in life is black and white. Not true. Penguins to name but a few
Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Mar 17 11.52am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
There was never any justification for the campaign of murdering. The history of Ireland has been a small minority trying to pursue an agenda with violence while most people just wanted to get on with their lives. The British do not come out of it with any credit either aside from the Good Friday agreement. I think sometime, there isn't much choice. But its not really so much justified, as maybe necessary, and that certain targets can be rationalised as being 'justified' in an armed struggle. None of the major players in the 'Troubles' is really blameless, or without great and hefty 'sins'.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| thegreatlardino crawley/selsey 21 Mar 17 12.00pm |
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trouble is I spent some time in NI during the troubles whilst in the army so my views are a bit biased after some of the stuff I saw etc..
Sometimes I set out for Ludlow |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 21 Mar 17 12.10pm |
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Originally posted by thegreatlardino
trouble is I spent some time in NI during the troubles whilst in the army so my views are a bit biased after some of the stuff I saw etc.. Have you seen the film '71? About a young soldier lost in West Belfast. Great, great film.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 21 Mar 17 12.14pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I think sometime, there isn't much choice. But its not really so much justified, as maybe necessary, and that certain targets can be rationalised as being 'justified' in an armed struggle. None of the major players in the 'Troubles' is really blameless, or without great and hefty 'sins'. How far back in history do you want to go? The Catholics in the North were undermined by Protestant settlers. It was all about money and land. I cannot believe that the bombing campaign could ever be justified since it was all about politics at best and sectarianism at worst. No ones freedom was at stake. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (21 Mar 2017 12.15pm)
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| orpingtoneagle Orpington 21 Mar 17 12.20pm |
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His role in the troubles can not be ignored (but has to be placed in both a wider context and equally that he was not alone in sharing those viees and his 'side' were not the only perpitraitors of violence.) But he has to be acknowledged as instrumental in firstly the laying down of weapons then the peace process - however fragile that is today.) Northern Ireland is a better safer place because of his actions
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