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The NHS : Who Is Telling The Truth?

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matt_himself Flag Matataland 15 Jan 17 11.50pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

But the thing is that's the exact opposite of what's going on. NHS contracts in ALL areas are expiring and being sold off to the private sector. That was basically the main consequence of the Health and Social Care Act. Even more than this, the level of scrutiny to publically run hospitals and clinics is severe, while critiques of existing trusts and private clinics, like Care and Virgin, are nowhere to be seen, despite major problems.

We are sleepwalking in to an American style system, because the ideology of neoliberalism knows no other solution. There is intentionally no production of pandemonium, because the public are so in favour of the NHS remaining a publically funded good.

What we could reaaaally do with is a political class who didn't view any community-owned or state-owned institutions as inherently evil and getting in the way of profits.

Edited by serial thriller (15 Jan 2017 8.19pm)

It's just as bad to polarise the debate and state that the NHS must be '100% state owned or funded' because there is a need for the private sector in NHS. The NHS is pisspoorly managed and needs to embrace elements of private sector involvement due to the changing nature of health care in this country.

I would support a Royal Commission on the NHS, health provision in this country, health provision for an ageing population and how it would be paid for. This would remove the issue from partisan politics and, once a Royal Commison is started it's very difficult to stop it.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Midlands Eagle Flag 16 Jan 17 6.47am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

I like to think of myself as a reasonably intelligent person yet I have no idea what can be done to sort out the mess that is the NHS.

I watch The Daily Politics most days and think that what Theresa May and Jeremy Hunt are saying makes sense then I listen to Jeremy Corbyn and he seems to make sense too.

My wife is a staff nurse and her ward is currently short of four nurses which gets worse when one is on holiday or off sick.

The Royal College of Nursing continually upgrade the entrance requirements to become a nurse and now it requires a university degree. Why? All this does is to ensure that those that have the aptitude to become nurses can't get a foot through the door and the newer intakes are those with university degrees but no aptitude for the job and having a university degree why would they want to be a lowly paid nurse anyway.

To compound matters the bursaries that were available to help fund training have now been taken away and anyone stupid enough to want to become a nurse have to fund four years training out of their own resources

 

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Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 16 Jan 17 8.46am Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I like to think of myself as a reasonably intelligent person yet I have no idea what can be done to sort out the mess that is the NHS.

I watch The Daily Politics most days and think that what Theresa May and Jeremy Hunt are saying makes sense then I listen to Jeremy Corbyn and he seems to make sense too.

My wife is a staff nurse and her ward is currently short of four nurses which gets worse when one is on holiday or off sick.

The Royal College of Nursing continually upgrade the entrance requirements to become a nurse and now it requires a university degree. Why? All this does is to ensure that those that have the aptitude to become nurses can't get a foot through the door and the newer intakes are those with university degrees but no aptitude for the job and having a university degree why would they want to be a lowly paid nurse anyway.

To compound matters the bursaries that were available to help fund training have now been taken away and anyone stupid enough to want to become a nurse have to fund four years training out of their own resources


Nice summary but not sure about Corbyn and sense

I do think that the NHS has been slow to adapt to the modern world. Not apportioning blame, it is a massive task. Whether it is the disastrous IT project or the inability to adapt to the 7 day working week, it is a long way behind.

In my opinion, we need to decide what sort of NHS we want, spend more on preventative measures and have a basic level of service that guarantees care should you fall ill.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 16 Jan 17 8.53am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Ban smokers and junk food addicts from accessing the NHS.

Problem solved.

 


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Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 16 Jan 17 8.58am Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

But the thing is that's the exact opposite of what's going on. NHS contracts in ALL areas are expiring and being sold off to the private sector. That was basically the main consequence of the Health and Social Care Act. Even more than this, the level of scrutiny to publically run hospitals and clinics is severe, while critiques of existing trusts and private clinics, like Care and Virgin, are nowhere to be seen, despite major problems.

We are sleepwalking in to an American style system, because the ideology of neoliberalism knows no other solution. There is intentionally no production of pandemonium, because the public are so in favour of the NHS remaining a publically funded good.

What we could reaaaally do with is a political class who didn't view any community-owned or state-owned institutions as inherently evil and getting in the way of profits.

Edited by serial thriller (15 Jan 2017 8.19pm)


If care is outsourced then the outsource company must be subject to the same level of scrutiny. I had a quick google for Virgin Healthcare but couldn't fond anything one way or the other


 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Vim Fuego Flag Haywards Heath 16 Jan 17 8.59am Send a Private Message to Vim Fuego Add Vim Fuego as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

No my friend. It is you who has whoosed yourself.

Your stupid joke implies that you consider migration one of the causes.

I think he whooshed you good and proper.

 

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.TUX. Flag 16 Jan 17 9.12am

Originally posted by Kermit8

Ban smokers and junk food addicts from accessing the NHS.

Problem solved.

Maybe ban the cigs and junkfood outlets?

 


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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 16 Jan 17 9.22am

Originally posted by Kermit8

Ban smokers and junk food addicts from accessing the NHS.

Problem solved.

I didn't have Matt down as standing outside McDonalds having a fag.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 16 Jan 17 9.25am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by .TUX.

Maybe ban the cigs and junkfood outlets?

The much criticised NHS is under severe pressure because it has to pick up the crap the indulgent, the overly consumerist and the irresponsibly unhealthy throws at it.

If people want to smoke, fine. If they want to be obese, fine. But if they had to take out private health insurance maybe they would think twice before having that third doughnut and that cigarette.

A simple Government campaign enforcing this message would help the NHS immensely in the short and long term.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 16 Jan 17 9.51am

Originally posted by matt_himself

It's just as bad to polarise the debate and state that the NHS must be '100% state owned or funded' because there is a need for the private sector in NHS. The NHS is pisspoorly managed and needs to embrace elements of private sector involvement due to the changing nature of health care in this country.

I would support a Royal Commission on the NHS, health provision in this country, health provision for an ageing population and how it would be paid for. This would remove the issue from partisan politics and, once a Royal Commison is started it's very difficult to stop it.

Private health care the UK way is a disaster waiting to happen. The French and German private health care models are exceedingly efficient, heavily regulated and serve the people's interests and still provide profit to private companies.

In the UK, private health care really only functions to 'jump the queue' due to the underfunding of the NHS (and the failure of successive governments to raise taxation revenues to pay for funding, primarily on the profit of companies benefiting from Free Movement, that has increase pressure on the NHS).

Personally, raise taxes, to properly fund education and health care across the UK. Everyone who is a UK citizen should be in a position where they can expect good return from the NHS and it to function.

It can never be an efficient financial entity like a business, because it can only ever be reactive.

Realistically, private health care in the UK really survives by piggy backing off the NHS. It doesn't have to provide the key front line services which are costly and unpredictable (Accident and Emergency and the assorted departments that run alongside that). It also tends to 'borrow' from the NHS equipment etc by paying for it as it uses, rather than having to own it.

 


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.TUX. Flag 16 Jan 17 9.57am

Originally posted by Kermit8

The much criticised NHS is under severe pressure because it has to pick up the crap the indulgent, the overly consumerist and the irresponsibly unhealthy throws at it.

If people want to smoke, fine. If they want to be obese, fine. But if they had to take out private health insurance maybe they would think twice before having that third doughnut and that cigarette.

A simple Government campaign enforcing this message would help the NHS immensely in the short and long term.

Hardly.

So what are NI contributions? The NHS isn't 'free'.


 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 16 Jan 17 9.57am

Originally posted by Kermit8

The much criticised NHS is under severe pressure because it has to pick up the crap the indulgent, the overly consumerist and the irresponsibly unhealthy throws at it.

If people want to smoke, fine. If they want to be obese, fine. But if they had to take out private health insurance maybe they would think twice before having that third doughnut and that cigarette.

A simple Government campaign enforcing this message would help the NHS immensely in the short and long term.

Those people pay tax and NI (indeed, in many cases additional taxes). Lets not turn into a health fascism state (they also die younger on average, and thus cost the state less in old age care and support).

We could penalise people who play sports - as they're likely to suffer injuries that the NHS will need to treat.

On the flip side, if we do, I would like a tax rebate as I don't have children (so that's say 25 years of tax I've spent, that others have indulgently had as child benefit, education and health care). As I'm 45 without kids, and never going to have kids.

The NHS must be for all of the people, all of the time, irrespective of their lifestyle or choices. The point of democracy and freedom, is we have to accept that others are different, make different choices and are entitled to do so, as are we.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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