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Is Britain a racist country?
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derben  03 Jun 15 1.00pm |
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Quote Mr Fenandes at 03 Jun 2015 12.52pm
Quote derben at 03 Jun 2015 12.34pm
People prefer to live with people who share the same language, racial characteristics, religion and culture. Always have and always will. Eastern European women. Scandinavian women. Not the same religion, culture or language. Makes absolutely no odds to the fact that 90% of them are outrageously attractive. If you want to let the aforementioned list restrict you from those potential delights, you're seriously missing out. Usually the same religion, Christian. Same sort of culture, drink alcohol, dress in a western manner (and I don't mean cowboy outfits). Generally share the same culture and the vast majority speak English. Racially indistinguishable. Edited by derben (03 Jun 2015 1.11pm)
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 Kermit8  Hevon 03 Jun 15 1.01pm |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 03 Jun 2015 12.52pm
Good clip and Akala made some very good points. Particularly the one about prejudice. A lot of people in this country are prejudice, once you get outside of the major towns and cities there is for want of a better word, a suspicion. Most people won't even be aware. I grew up in Wales in the late 60s & 70s. Until I left Wales I had only known 1 mixed race person. There were a few boat people from about 1980 who people didn't quite know what to do / how to relate to. I was racially prejudiced, I didn't know it at the time and I was also homophobic, a combination of my environment and the way the media was then conditioned me without me realising. Though funnily enough I'd go to Two Tone concerts and Northern Soul nights but I didn't make the connection. The point I'm trying to make is that it is subconscious and most people would deny being prejudiced. It struck me when I moved to Tooting and I began to question my thoughts and feelings. On the whole I think that the UK is a very tolerant society, far from perfect but better than most. As Grace Jones once said: Anyone who thinks Britain is racist should try living in Paris!
Had Anglo-African and gay classmates at school, both of whom were good friends at the time, so the whole difference thing passed me by. Richard and Colin. Ta, fellas.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Jun 15 1.04pm |
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Quote Steptoe at 03 Jun 2015 12.54pm
It's human nature to be somewhat tribal along various lines and those lines shift over time. It's also human nature to cooperate, to empathise, to relate. Over the top prejudice reveals a deficit of the latter. Lots of differences are essentially imagined. That said, I'm not sure that Frankie Boyle is the ideal person to be preaching to people about how to treat others. Edited by Steptoe (03 Jun 2015 12.56pm) Tribalism isn't racist though, or devisive even. A lot of people like to use the term to almost justify something that would otherwise be unjustifiable (such as smacking rival supporters at football matches or xenophobia), which is entirely at odds with how Anthropology, where different tribes might be at odds with one another, they are more likely to be co-operative than engaged in sectarian conflict. If it were true of human nature, we'd still live in tribal groups drawn along clan lines of unity: the rise of the nuclear family suggests that people are not tribal at all in the UK. Its a convenient means of dismissing the human political elements that generally are devisive, such as blaming 'tribal differences' for murder / genocide of Rawanda or Bosnia, rather than the specific utilization of ultra nationalist politics.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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The Sash  Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 03 Jun 15 1.06pm |
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Comparatively speaking Britain is a hugely tolerant against the rest of the world. Not to say it wont and doesn't, have its 'problems' whether based on religious, racial or cultural difference. Those who tend to say it isn't so tend to be those who have something to gain from saying so.
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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| DanH SW2 03 Jun 15 1.09pm |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 03 Jun 2015 12.55pm
Quote DanH at 03 Jun 2015 12.50pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 03 Jun 2015 12.45pm
I mentioned it here. My 2p worth again: By the way, did anyone watch 'Frankie Boyle's Election Autopsy'? Like a lot of BBC comedy it was a bit hit and miss. Clearly the comedians were a bit leftist, anti-UKIP but I don't mind that too much. It's irreverent and anti-politics, although interesting how BBC 'satire' follows EXACTLY the same pattern regardless of channel or programme (Cameron is posh, Miliband useless, Clegg a traitor, Farage a racist) Anyway, did anyone see the monologue about supposedly 'racist to the core' Britain by the rapper guy at the end? It was undoubtedly eloquent and interesting and it was quite well-informed. But it was NOT comedy or satire. It was a bald political statement and went completely unchallenged for a good six or seven minutes. Whether you agree or disagree, it is desperately poor standards from a supposedly impartial broadcaster and I was pretty shocked the BBC put it out.
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 03 Jun 15 1.09pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Jun 2015 12.56pm
Britain isn't a racist country. There are some people within the UK that are racist, but that's not a country - You'll find small narrow minded hateful people in most countries.
We are complicit in suffering, be it Chinese workers who make ur electronics, the bombing of Libya influencing the price of our oil, even the repression of local farmers in South America so our middle classes can eat quinoa. We relieve ourselves of guilt in many ways. We point to everyone else doing likewise, the improvements being made in helping these people. But a fundamental justification for our actions remains an idea of racial or national dominance which is pervasive in our very language and customs. Look at how the government are currently promoting 'British values' in schools, whatever they are. Look at the willing ignorance of Islamic culture and its infinite diversity, yet the widespread belief that Islam promotes hatred/extremism. Look at the reaction to the London riots, with even one of our most prominent historians on national television claiming it was due to 'white people becoming black'. The results of this underlying racial understanding is clear for all to see (look at the police's stop and search numbers, the colour of British prisons etc.), but the idea that Britain remains a country which is built upon racism is far more difficult.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| Steptoe 03 Jun 15 1.09pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Jun 2015 1.04pm
Quote Steptoe at 03 Jun 2015 12.54pm
It's human nature to be somewhat tribal along various lines and those lines shift over time. It's also human nature to cooperate, to empathise, to relate. Over the top prejudice reveals a deficit of the latter. Lots of differences are essentially imagined. That said, I'm not sure that Frankie Boyle is the ideal person to be preaching to people about how to treat others. Edited by Steptoe (03 Jun 2015 12.56pm) Tribalism isn't racist though, or devisive even. A lot of people like to use the term to almost justify something that would otherwise be unjustifiable (such as smacking rival supporters at football matches or xenophobia), which is entirely at odds with how Anthropology, where different tribes might be at odds with one another, they are more likely to be co-operative than engaged in sectarian conflict. If it were true of human nature, we'd still live in tribal groups drawn along clan lines of unity: the rise of the nuclear family suggests that people are not tribal at all in the UK. Its a convenient means of dismissing the human political elements that generally are devisive, such as blaming 'tribal differences' for murder / genocide of Rawanda or Bosnia, rather than the specific utilization of ultra nationalist politics.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Jun 15 1.10pm |
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Quote Kermit8 at 03 Jun 2015 1.01pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 03 Jun 2015 12.52pm
Good clip and Akala made some very good points. Particularly the one about prejudice. A lot of people in this country are prejudice, once you get outside of the major towns and cities there is for want of a better word, a suspicion. Most people won't even be aware. I grew up in Wales in the late 60s & 70s. Until I left Wales I had only known 1 mixed race person. There were a few boat people from about 1980 who people didn't quite know what to do / how to relate to. I was racially prejudiced, I didn't know it at the time and I was also homophobic, a combination of my environment and the way the media was then conditioned me without me realising. Though funnily enough I'd go to Two Tone concerts and Northern Soul nights but I didn't make the connection. The point I'm trying to make is that it is subconscious and most people would deny being prejudiced. It struck me when I moved to Tooting and I began to question my thoughts and feelings. On the whole I think that the UK is a very tolerant society, far from perfect but better than most. As Grace Jones once said: Anyone who thinks Britain is racist should try living in Paris!
Had Anglo-African and gay classmates at school, both of whom were good friends at the time, so the whole difference thing passed me by. Richard and Colin. Ta, fellas. Humans are a species with very little instinctual basis, even by primate standards. We learn almost everything from scratch (we are born with an instinct for language, flight or fight responses, senses and autonomic functions). We may be primed towards an instinct to categorize by differences though (we notice and understand the world in relation to how it differs over time and from our self and expectations). So on a very micro level difference is a characteristic of definition by which we measure things (although the assertion of positive and negative to those differences is itself learned through social education). The rest we learn, and as psychology and neurology develops, it seems more and more of what we are is what we learn and communicate socially.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 03 Jun 15 1.10pm |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 03 Jun 2015 12.52pm
Good clip and Akala made some very good points. Particularly the one about prejudice. A lot of people in this country are prejudice, once you get outside of the major towns and cities there is for want of a better word, a suspicion. Most people won't even be aware. I grew up in Wales in the late 60s & 70s. Until I left Wales I had only known 1 mixed race person. There were a few boat people from about 1980 who people didn't quite know what to do / how to relate to. I was racially prejudiced, I didn't know it at the time and I was also homophobic, a combination of my environment and the way the media was then conditioned me without me realising. Though funnily enough I'd go to Two Tone concerts and Northern Soul nights but I didn't make the connection. The point I'm trying to make is that it is subconscious and most people would deny being prejudiced. It struck me when I moved to Tooting and I began to question my thoughts and feelings. On the whole I think that the UK is a very tolerant society, far from perfect but better than most. As Grace Jones once said: Anyone who thinks Britain is racist should try living in Paris!
The inference though is that its always about 'white' prejudice when in fact the same applies in the inner cities amongst 'immigrant' and 'non white' communities. The simplified position tends to be that to be of a non white / non British background automatically puts you into some kind of homogenised utopian melting pot where everyone has some kind of common culture, experience, heritage, aspiration and outlook. Its patently bollocks and is actually hugely patronising and insulting to those concerned. Totally agree about environment and exposure though - especially when like yourself I was brought up in a time when all Asians talked like Dino Shafeeq in Mind Your Language and wobbled their head from side to side, all gay men looked, walked and sounded like Honky Tonks in Dick Emery...hugely stereotyped 'cartoons' which became standard as it was probably the nearest most came to experiencing Asians or Homersexualists
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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| Stuk Top half 03 Jun 15 1.13pm |
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No, it's not. A saw a story earlier with some black men (including someone from The Voice that i've never watched, but that somehow lends credibility to the assumption) complaining about being refused entry to nightclubs because, in their opinion, of their skin colour. I must've looked black a few times when I was younger if that's the case...
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| The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 03 Jun 15 1.15pm |
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Quote Stuk at 03 Jun 2015 1.13pm
No, it's not. A saw a story earlier with some black men (including someone from The Voice that i've never watched, but that somehow lends credibility to the assumption) complaining about being refused entry to nightclubs because, in their opinion, of their skin colour. I must've looked black a few times when I was younger if that's the case... I saw that earlier and did smirk - If I had a pound for everywhere I have been refused entry to I would be a pretty rich man
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Jun 15 1.17pm |
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Quote Steptoe at 03 Jun 2015 1.09pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Jun 2015 1.04pm
Quote Steptoe at 03 Jun 2015 12.54pm
It's human nature to be somewhat tribal along various lines and those lines shift over time. It's also human nature to cooperate, to empathise, to relate. Over the top prejudice reveals a deficit of the latter. Lots of differences are essentially imagined. That said, I'm not sure that Frankie Boyle is the ideal person to be preaching to people about how to treat others. Edited by Steptoe (03 Jun 2015 12.56pm) Tribalism isn't racist though, or devisive even. A lot of people like to use the term to almost justify something that would otherwise be unjustifiable (such as smacking rival supporters at football matches or xenophobia), which is entirely at odds with how Anthropology, where different tribes might be at odds with one another, they are more likely to be co-operative than engaged in sectarian conflict. If it were true of human nature, we'd still live in tribal groups drawn along clan lines of unity: the rise of the nuclear family suggests that people are not tribal at all in the UK. Its a convenient means of dismissing the human political elements that generally are devisive, such as blaming 'tribal differences' for murder / genocide of Rawanda or Bosnia, rather than the specific utilization of ultra nationalist politics.
Evolutionary speaking mutual shared interest is more advantageous than tribal self interest. Humans tend to engage in tribal conflicts when resources are insufficient for shared interest (Humans generally are given to trade and negotiation over violence as a means of resolution due to their capacity for language), where as animals tend to use 'ritualized violence' rather than actual violence. Few species are violent by nature as a first step, except predators, simply because the risks of injury and resultant death aren't outweighed by the benefits. Most have evolved means of resolution. Even predators tend only to be violent when provoked or seeking food (and even then they're likely to avoid conflict with other predatory animals unless staving - A lion will often back off from Hyenas and leave a kill).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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