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legaleagle 09 May 15 10.36am | |
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Switzerland and Norway both have "freedom of movement" as a term of their association agreements with the EU.We would be unlikely to get better terms. I'm interested to know,when posters says "in but with reforms",what reforms do they think would be enough for them and are realistically achievable in the next 2 years?
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Lakeview Lincoln 09 May 15 10.48am | |
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1. In
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Hoof Hearted 09 May 15 11.46am | |
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Mickey Flanagan..... OUT OUT
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xGeorgex Oh South London 09 May 15 11.49am | |
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1. OUT 2. IN; after Labour, Lib Dems, SNP and most of the main Tories put a lot of funding into staying in. Left with UKIP and some awkward squad Tories fighting with little funding to go out. Much like the AV referendum, everyone wanted a new system then they choose a s*** system and make people disinterested.
E Block - Win, Lose or Draw it’s about having a good day out |
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Stirlingsays 09 May 15 8.45pm | |
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Quote legaleagle at 09 May 2015 10.36am
Switzerland and Norway both have "freedom of movement" as a term of their association agreements with the EU.We would be unlikely to get better terms. I'm interested to know,when posters says "in but with reforms",what reforms do they think would be enough for them and are realistically achievable in the next 2 years? The EU could not survive a British exit in its current form......It's quite amusing really. The EU has over twenty five members and only four of them are net contributors. We are one of those four. Look at the EU's rather pathetic attempts to keep Greece in the Euro..Greece are a tiny economy. Yet the EU know that the shock to the credit line in the markets would be significant...Even with all this time for banks to insulate themselves over the inevitable. The loss of confidence over losing Britain would cause major shakes in the project...Our economy size and hence payments are similar to France..Germany already have disquiet over the rising cost of being the top contributor.....If we did leave then EU would change and downsize that's probably a good thing long term......So for me a Brexit....It's a win win. The corpse eaters in the markets are already waiting for the EU to collapse and think it's a dead cert and only a matter of time......The EU know this. When push comes to shove, letting Britain go isn't going to be a risk they are willing to undergo. Their gravy train would be swifty derailed. Freedom of movement and whatever would quickly become a price worth paying to keep a major net contributor. Now if Cameron keeps his word on the referendum we finally get to find out.....After all these years of stalling. Thank goodness for FPTP
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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derben 09 May 15 8.48pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 09 May 2015 8.45pm
Quote legaleagle at 09 May 2015 10.36am
Switzerland and Norway both have "freedom of movement" as a term of their association agreements with the EU.We would be unlikely to get better terms. I'm interested to know,when posters says "in but with reforms",what reforms do they think would be enough for them and are realistically achievable in the next 2 years? The EU could not survive a British exit in its current form......It's quite amusing really. The EU has over twenty five members and only four of them are net contributors. We are one of those four. Look at the EU's rather pathetic attempts to keep Greece in the Euro..Greece are a tiny economy. Yet the EU know that the shock to the credit line in the markets would be significant...Even with all this time for banks to insulate themselves over the inevitable. The loss of confidence over losing Britain would cause major shakes in the project...Our economy size and hence payments are similar to France..Germany already have disquiet over the rising cost of being the top contributor.....If we did leave then EU would change and downsize that's probably a good thing long term......So for me a Brexit....It's a win win. The corpse eaters in the markets are already waiting for the EU to collapse and think it's a dead cert and only a matter of time......The EU know this. When push comes to shove, letting Britain go isn't going to be a risk they are willing to undergo. Their gravy train would be swifty derailed. Freedom of movement and whatever would quickly become a price worth paying to keep a major net contributor. Now if Cameron keeps his word on the referendum we finally get to find out.....After all these years of stalling. Thank goodness for FPTP Excellent post Stirling.
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Stirlingsays 09 May 15 8.50pm | |
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Quote xGeorgex at 09 May 2015 11.49am
1. OUT 2. IN; after Labour, Lib Dems, SNP and most of the main Tories put a lot of funding into staying in. Left with UKIP and some awkward squad Tories fighting with little funding to go out. Much like the AV referendum, everyone wanted a new system then they choose a s*** system and make people disinterested. There are plenty of rich private anti EU donators who will step in to fund the 'Out' campaign.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 09 May 15 8.53pm | |
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Quote derben at 09 May 2015 8.48pm
Excellent post Stirling.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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blind eagle Covington.Tennessee 09 May 15 8.58pm | |
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Quote OldFella at 08 May 2015 8.58pm
Assuming DC delivers on his promise of a 2017 referendum - 1. Who's in/who's out I'm undecided on 1 at the moment. And really think it will be close.
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imbored UK 09 May 15 10.24pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 09 May 2015 8.45pm
Quote legaleagle at 09 May 2015 10.36am
Switzerland and Norway both have "freedom of movement" as a term of their association agreements with the EU.We would be unlikely to get better terms. I'm interested to know,when posters says "in but with reforms",what reforms do they think would be enough for them and are realistically achievable in the next 2 years? The EU could not survive a British exit in its current form......It's quite amusing really. The EU has over twenty five members and only four of them are net contributors. We are one of those four. Look at the EU's rather pathetic attempts to keep Greece in the Euro..Greece are a tiny economy. Yet the EU know that the shock to the credit line in the markets would be significant...Even with all this time for banks to insulate themselves over the inevitable. The loss of confidence over losing Britain would cause major shakes in the project...Our economy size and hence payments are similar to France..Germany already have disquiet over the rising cost of being the top contributor.....If we did leave then EU would change and downsize that's probably a good thing long term......So for me a Brexit....It's a win win. The corpse eaters in the markets are already waiting for the EU to collapse and think it's a dead cert and only a matter of time......The EU know this. When push comes to shove, letting Britain go isn't going to be a risk they are willing to undergo. Their gravy train would be swifty derailed. Freedom of movement and whatever would quickly become a price worth paying to keep a major net contributor. Now if Cameron keeps his word on the referendum we finally get to find out.....After all these years of stalling. Thank goodness for FPTP
I'm not even anti EU but I recognise that a Tory majority under FPTP is much, much less likely to result in an exit from the EU than if this particular election had PR in place. The numbers demonstrate that.
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Stirlingsays 09 May 15 11.09pm | |
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Quote imbored at 09 May 2015 10.24pm
Really? If the tories run a criminally skewed pro EU campaign, much like their PR one, with a biased question resulting in a resounding NO vote, will you feel the same way? This is short sighted. Under PR the tories would still have a very significant number of seats (240+), only UKIP would have 80+ too to hold them to an unbiased question and fair media representation of the facts either way. You're in for an unpleasant surprise if you really think the Tories are going to give you that. I'm not even anti EU but I recognise that a Tory majority under FPTP is much, much less likely to result in an exit from the EU than if this particular election had PR in place. The numbers demonstrate that.
I detest and detested coalition ....And it was only a tiny taste of PR style politics. You can be a PR fanboy if you like but for me...While I recognise that PR is a fairer system....In the end I look at the practical results of the PR system. This is the result: poor governance. You can desire the Italian political system all you like but FPTP has the advantages of being able to really judge a party upon its decisions in power. Not a mish mash of compromises that rarely achieves any direction at all. Yes, FPTP was unfair on Ukip just like it was in the past to the Lib Dems......But Ukip are a protest party anyway and while I'm happy with the votes total they achieved....For me it's not about actual power....It's about pressure....And that's been achieved. Despite what some on the left say Ukip's votes won't be ignored. I vote for principles I believe in...Like most...I'm not tied to a party.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 09 May 15 11.16pm | |
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As for the question on the In/Out paper.....This issue has been so significant in the public's conscience....I can't see the wool being pulled over anyone's eyes. If Cameron goes back on his word he won't last the term....The Tory party itself isn't exactly pro EU and it wouldn't countenance any underhand tactics from its own leadership. I actually think it will be rather a fair shake for both pro and anti camps.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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