Now that's my kind of Religion

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Now that's my kind of Religion

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jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Mar 15 2.54pm
Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 17 Mar 2015 9.39am 1) The vast majority of Christians and Jews do not see the Bible as the literal word of God. Although many think it is inspired by the Holy Spirit, it is likely to have heaps of factual imperfections because human knowledge (especially then, was limited). That is emphasised in opposition to God's infinite wisdom. Its important to remember that Judaism and Christianity are separate religions that share a basis, along with Islam in the Abrahamic faith. Most of Judaism rejects the notion that Jesus was 'God Son' and consequently regard the New Testament as largely of little consequence. The old testament and the books of Jewish law that comprise the Torah are different, a number of differences exist and a number of books of Jewish law are excluded from the Old Testament. For most of Christian history, Jews were largely regarded as Heretics and Apostates, really right up into modern history, most Christian groupings were largely anti-sematic (including numerous outbreaks of murderous progroms). Judaism, historically has been much closer with Islam than the Christian west. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 17 Mar 15 2.54pm

Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 17 Mar 2015 9.39am

1) The vast majority of Christians and Jews do not see the Bible as the literal word of God. Although many think it is inspired by the Holy Spirit, it is likely to have heaps of factual imperfections because human knowledge (especially then, was limited). That is emphasised in opposition to God's infinite wisdom.

Its important to remember that Judaism and Christianity are separate religions that share a basis, along with Islam in the Abrahamic faith. Most of Judaism rejects the notion that Jesus was 'God Son' and consequently regard the New Testament as largely of little consequence.

The old testament and the books of Jewish law that comprise the Torah are different, a number of differences exist and a number of books of Jewish law are excluded from the Old Testament.

For most of Christian history, Jews were largely regarded as Heretics and Apostates, really right up into modern history, most Christian groupings were largely anti-sematic (including numerous outbreaks of murderous progroms). Judaism, historically has been much closer with Islam than the Christian west.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Mar 15 2.56pm
Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger. The reason they do is the selfishness of man. Why is that God's fault? No it is not. lets just suppose God is reall for minute, famine and drought have to be his (Gods) fault and if we are all made in his image and children are innocent why would he allow children to die of famine because of a lack of something as easy to conjure up as rain (considering he made the whole shabang in 7 days a little bit of rain shouldnt be too tricky.) Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc. It's all well and good saying its the evil/selfishness of man but to me that is just deflective bulls* from the real reason he does nothing, which is more than likley A) he doesn't give a fcuk (think on that one next time you watch a 1 month old baby die from ebola) or B) he doesnt exist. I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck. I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious f*ing ways alright. Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm) Indeed, we regard it immoral to do nothing to prevent these crimes ourselves, when we lack real individual agency to affect them, so why does an omniscient and omnipotent god get a pass? Surely power entails a responsibility to use it? "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 17 Mar 15 2.56pm

Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm

Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm

Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger.

The reason they do is the selfishness of man.

Why is that God's fault?

No it is not. lets just suppose God is reall for minute, famine and drought have to be his (Gods) fault and if we are all made in his image and children are innocent why would he allow children to die of famine because of a lack of something as easy to conjure up as rain (considering he made the whole shabang in 7 days a little bit of rain shouldnt be too tricky.)

Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc.

It's all well and good saying its the evil/selfishness of man but to me that is just deflective bulls*** from the real reason he does nothing, which is more than likley A) he doesn't give a fcuk (think on that one next time you watch a 1 month old baby die from ebola) or B) he doesnt exist.

I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck.

I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious f***ing ways alright.

Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm)

Indeed, we regard it immoral to do nothing to prevent these crimes ourselves, when we lack real individual agency to affect them, so why does an omniscient and omnipotent god get a pass? Surely power entails a responsibility to use it?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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ghosteagle 17 Mar 15 3.01pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.56pm Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger. The reason they do is the selfishness of man. Why is that God's fault? No it is not. lets just suppose God is reall for minute, famine and drought have to be his (Gods) fault and if we are all made in his image and children are innocent why would he allow children to die of famine because of a lack of something as easy to conjure up as rain (considering he made the whole shabang in 7 days a little bit of rain shouldnt be too tricky.) Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc. It's all well and good saying its the evil/selfishness of man but to me that is just deflective bulls* from the real reason he does nothing, which is more than likley A) he doesn't give a fcuk (think on that one next time you watch a 1 month old baby die from ebola) or B) he doesnt exist. I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck. I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious fing ways alright. Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm) Indeed, we regard it immoral to do nothing to prevent these crimes ourselves, when we lack real individual agency to affect them, so why does an omniscient and omnipotent god get a pass? Surely power entails a responsibility to use it?* I think one Peter Parker once said something similar.
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ghosteagle

17 Mar 15 3.01pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.56pm

Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm

Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm

Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger.

The reason they do is the selfishness of man.

Why is that God's fault?

Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc.

I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck.

I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious f***ing ways alright.

Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm)

I think one Peter Parker once said something similar.

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Pikester Worthing 17 Mar 15 4.29pm
Quote ghosteagle at 17 Mar 2015 3.01pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.56pm Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger. The reason they do is the selfishness of man. Why is that God's fault? No it is not. lets just suppose God is reall for minute, famine and drought have to be his (Gods) fault and if we are all made in his image and children are innocent why would he allow children to die of famine because of a lack of something as easy to conjure up as rain (considering he made the whole shabang in 7 days a little bit of rain shouldnt be too tricky.) Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc. It's all well and good saying its the evil/selfishness of man but to me that is just deflective bulls* from the real reason he does nothing, which is more than likley A) he doesn't give a fcuk (think on that one next time you watch a 1 month old baby die from ebola) or B) he doesnt exist. I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck. I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious fing ways alright. Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm) Indeed, we regard it immoral to do nothing to prevent these crimes ourselves, when we lack real individual agency to affect them, so why does an omniscient and omnipotent god get a pass? Surely power entails a responsibility to use it?* I think one Peter Parker once said something similar. That was his uncle you bloody heretic! You fed me, you bred me, I'll remember your name.
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Pikester

Worthing 17 Mar 15 4.29pm

Quote ghosteagle at 17 Mar 2015 3.01pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.56pm

Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm

Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm

Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger.

The reason they do is the selfishness of man.

Why is that God's fault?

Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc.

I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck.

I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious f***ing ways alright.

Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm)

I think one Peter Parker once said something similar.

That was his uncle you bloody heretic!

You fed me, you bred me, I'll remember your name.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Mar 15 4.34pm
Quote ghosteagle at 17 Mar 2015 3.01pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.56pm Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger. The reason they do is the selfishness of man. Why is that God's fault? No it is not. lets just suppose God is reall for minute, famine and drought have to be his (Gods) fault and if we are all made in his image and children are innocent why would he allow children to die of famine because of a lack of something as easy to conjure up as rain (considering he made the whole shabang in 7 days a little bit of rain shouldnt be too tricky.) Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc. It's all well and good saying its the evil/selfishness of man but to me that is just deflective bulls* from the real reason he does nothing, which is more than likley A) he doesn't give a fcuk (think on that one next time you watch a 1 month old baby die from ebola) or B) he doesnt exist. I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck. I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious fing ways alright. Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm) Indeed, we regard it immoral to do nothing to prevent these crimes ourselves, when we lack real individual agency to affect them, so why does an omniscient and omnipotent god get a pass? Surely power entails a responsibility to use it?* I think one Peter Parker once said something similar. Great Power, Entails Great Responsibility - Its the basis of the concept of Noblis Oblige. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 17 Mar 15 4.34pm

Quote ghosteagle at 17 Mar 2015 3.01pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.56pm

Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm

Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm

Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger.

The reason they do is the selfishness of man.

Why is that God's fault?

Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc.

I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck.

I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious f***ing ways alright.

Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm)

I think one Peter Parker once said something similar.

Great Power, Entails Great Responsibility - Its the basis of the concept of Noblis Oblige.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Mar 15 4.36pm
Quote Pikester at 17 Mar 2015 4.29pm Quote ghosteagle at 17 Mar 2015 3.01pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.56pm Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger. The reason they do is the selfishness of man. Why is that God's fault? No it is not. lets just suppose God is reall for minute, famine and drought have to be his (Gods) fault and if we are all made in his image and children are innocent why would he allow children to die of famine because of a lack of something as easy to conjure up as rain (considering he made the whole shabang in 7 days a little bit of rain shouldnt be too tricky.) Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc. It's all well and good saying its the evil/selfishness of man but to me that is just deflective bulls* from the real reason he does nothing, which is more than likley A) he doesn't give a fcuk (think on that one next time you watch a 1 month old baby die from ebola) or B) he doesnt exist. I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck. I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious fing ways alright. Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm) Indeed, we regard it immoral to do nothing to prevent these crimes ourselves, when we lack real individual agency to affect them, so why does an omniscient and omnipotent god get a pass? Surely power entails a responsibility to use it?* I think one Peter Parker once said something similar. That was his uncle you bloody heretic! Uncle Ben, true dat. Although I think he's quoting Honoré de Balzac "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 17 Mar 15 4.36pm

Quote Pikester at 17 Mar 2015 4.29pm

Quote ghosteagle at 17 Mar 2015 3.01pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.56pm

Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm

Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm

Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger.

The reason they do is the selfishness of man.

Why is that God's fault?

Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc.

I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck.

I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious f***ing ways alright.

Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm)

I think one Peter Parker once said something similar.

That was his uncle you bloody heretic!

Uncle Ben, true dat. Although I think he's quoting Honoré de Balzac

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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legaleagle 17 Mar 15 9.05pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.54pm Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 17 Mar 2015 9.39am 1) The vast majority of Christians and Jews do not see the Bible as the literal word of God. Although many think it is inspired by the Holy Spirit, it is likely to have heaps of factual imperfections because human knowledge (especially then, was limited). That is emphasised in opposition to God's infinite wisdom. Its important to remember that Judaism and Christianity are separate religions that share a basis, along with Islam in the Abrahamic faith. Most of Judaism rejects the notion that Jesus was 'God Son' and consequently regard the New Testament as largely of little consequence. The old testament and the books of Jewish law that comprise the Torah are different, a number of differences exist and a number of books of Jewish law are excluded from the Old Testament. For most of Christian history, Jews were largely regarded as Heretics and Apostates, really right up into modern history, most Christian groupings were largely anti-sematic (including numerous outbreaks of murderous progroms). Judaism, historically has been much closer with Islam than the Christian west. Indeed,although Islam allowed for "protection" of other religions,whether Jews or Christians, under its watch only if they accepted a two tier separatist system and paid extra taxes, and "pogroms" took place from time to time. It was only in the 1960's (in very modern history) that the Holy Father (as a top representative of a religion espousing peace,love and turning the other cheek) very kindly decreed that Jews were no longer to be held collectively responsible on an ongoing basis for the invented myth of having the Saviour die,thus lessening the effects of centuries of theologically creating an environment for regular discrimination,prejudice and pogroms etc to be a constant in many countries. It's enough to put a person off religion full stop! Edited by legaleagle (17 Mar 2015 11.34pm)
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legaleagle

17 Mar 15 9.05pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.54pm

Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 17 Mar 2015 9.39am

The old testament and the books of Jewish law that comprise the Torah are different, a number of differences exist and a number of books of Jewish law are excluded from the Old Testament.

Indeed,although Islam allowed for "protection" of other religions,whether Jews or Christians, under its watch only if they accepted a two tier separatist system and paid extra taxes, and "pogroms" took place from time to time.

It was only in the 1960's (in very modern history) that the Holy Father (as a top representative of a religion espousing peace,love and turning the other cheek) very kindly decreed that Jews were no longer to be held collectively responsible on an ongoing basis for the invented myth of having the Saviour die,thus lessening the effects of centuries of theologically creating an environment for regular discrimination,prejudice and pogroms etc to be a constant in many countries.

It's enough to put a person off religion full stop!

Edited by legaleagle (17 Mar 2015 11.34pm)

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EaglesEaglesEagles 17 Mar 15 11.29pm
Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 11.01am Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 17 Mar 2015 9.39am Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 9.14am Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Mar 2015 2.05pm Quote dannyh at 16 Mar 2015 1.59pm I like the idea of God and Jesus and all that stuff of course, who wouldn't, but my adult brain thinks,,,no actually, it knows, that the bible is full of absolute dog toffee that has been proven beyond any doubt to be bollicks. Espeically the old testament crap, Adam and Eve Noah and all that old tosh. In fairness, even most of the writers of that era wouldn't really have expected people to take stories at face value. Classical literature of the time (and before) very much uses the concept of fables, parables and metaphor as key elements. No one would read Ovid's Metamorphosis and think 'ah right, that's literal'. Similarly, Rabbi's don't generally refer to the Torrah (and the old testament books) as being literal events. Although there is a lot of evidence to support the idea of a few 'great floods', the ark isn't supposed to be taken as anything more than a metaphor. The film is much better than the book. Edited by jamiemartin721 (16 Mar 2015 2.05pm) pah ! Christianity in it's wisdom says the world is only 6000 years old. We all know the earth is billions of years old, Thats the book of genesis kicked into touch without even breaking sweat, and thats the basis of the entire bible. Oh yeah did I mention a talking snake ? 1) The vast majority of Christians and Jews do not see the Bible as the literal word of God. Although many think it is inspired by the Holy Spirit, it is likely to have heaps of factual imperfections because human knowledge (especially then, was limited). That is emphasised in opposition to God's infinite wisdom. Human Knowledge was limited ? can you explain the pyramids for me again then. And if God if so wise why are thousands of children dying of hunger and starvation as we speak, doesn't seem very wise to me. 2) Much of the Bible's language is allegorical. The point of the talking snake and events in the first part of Genesis is to detail the relationship of good and ever and man's relationship to God. Whether it actually happened or not is irrelevant. The seven days thing is simple creation myth language. It's interesting that you say whether it happened or not is irrelevant, so as a christian (clearly) you are saying the story of creation as written in the king James bible is irrelavant. It's only irrelavant because even you in your Jesus is great slanted look at life know that it is simply bollocks. The Earth has stood for billions of years it wasn't made in 7 days by the big sky fairy, and Adam and Eve were not the first humans on Earth, Try reading a factual book on Darwinism. 3) I know that the insightful wisdom you clearly possess coupled with a delightful cynicism is unique, but Christians have heard it all before. I don't know why you're so self-centred to highlight talking snakes etc., but your points are neither original nor of any interest to anyone else. It is not isightful wisdom it is fact. Pure cold scientific FACT. My Cynicism is far from unique, before you have me burnt at the stake (another enligtened Christian pass time) why dont you google Atheist at see how many there are out there. Christians do not care in the slightest what your position is because you do not have the faculties to present tricky problematic doctrinal and theological problems for Christianity but point out logical flaws that a moron (you maybe?) could recognise. I could go to great length in theoligical debate with you as I was brought up a catholic and went to a catholic school, but people like you dont listen to reasoned debate, your like the women out of the film paul, who when confronted with an Alien, sank to her knees and receited Amazing grace! I would also argue that if I a "moron" can point out such open and easily discreditable bible tosh then what does it say about those that belive it (you?) If Christians are being moronic to you then so be it but Christians don't care. Christianity is a faith-based religion and requires far more nuanced insight with regard to fallacies in order to form a more coherent theology in regard to scripture. Oh so because you believe in some omni present Sky Fairy that makes you brighter than me, Listen mate I don't care what you believe but you have no more proof to your belief system than I could provide to show aliens exist. Different people believe differen things, I chose not to belive in wholsale religion because then I don't have to aleinate other just becuase they believe in a different type of fairy at the bottom of the garden than I do. 4) Join the national secular society. Funnily enough you might learn something. About the NSS We work in the UK and Europe to challenge the disproportionate influence of religion on governments and in public life. We provide a secular voice in the media, defending freedom and equality as a counterbalance to the powerful religious lobby and some of the more destructive religious impulses that can threaten human rights worldwide. You know I just might. Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 11.03am) Yo, Danny old buddy old pal. I just realised who exactly you are and that we had a similar argument five years ago and that you sent me these private messages off the forum: dannyh 'Tell you what mate you keep on being abusive, all it proves is that you catholics are all the same, how dare someone disagree with your religious views. I'll tell you what as well hard man why don't you meet me and say that stuff to my face, t***t' ------------ EaglesEaglesEagles 'Listen, why are you saying this to me and why not on the forum. I don't understand, apart from calling you stupid I tried to show you how you are wrong, not being abusive without anything to back me up. I apologise for doing this though, I realise I was too heated, I'm sorry. A forum is a forum for a reason and for debate, so I don't understand your concept of one. To be honest you atheists in this country are the same: how someone dare believe in Catholicism/any faith and you show so much hate. I wouldn't have replied to your specific post if it hadn't angered me so much. Well you wouldn't say those things face to face with a catholic who is equally violent as you but much bigger and stronger than you. Or would you hard man?' ------------ dannyh 'Yes I would You see the thing is unlike you what ever I put on a messarge board I would say to someones face I dont hide behind anything, Ask anyone who knows me on here. As for Catholics I was brought up as one, went to an all Boys Catholic school, mass every sunday, but when I was old enough to make up my own mind I realised that if God or jesus could see how their word has been warped and twisted they would not be to chuffed. The Catholic church is clouded in controversy always has been. Your a blinkered fool.' Not saying that this does anything to disprove your argument or further mine but I think you're a bit of a prick as a person and I don't think there is any point to further debate. I personally since then have changed my opinion and do not think atheists are all the same. Other people on the forum have far stronger and interesting arguments than you and you don't want to listen, just criticise after a childhood Catholic experience which seems to have scarred you. You are dismissive to the point of abusive on points of view which contradict yours. To you they are dangerous and should be derided and destroyed if possible. You belittle faith but personally I can't fathom how life can simply exists after having been a bunch of material and chemicals. Nor can I see how time can never have existed and that everything is infinite. I'm not sure you can explain that by science. Maybe ask jamiemartin, he has a pretty good idea of the argument, although I can't fathom it myself. I think just in a general sense you are unintelligent and rude. I'm separating you from thousands upon thousands of atheists who are highly intelligent and create fascinating, challenging concepts. Edited by EaglesEaglesEagles (17 Mar 2015 11.32pm) I ain't got nuthin' funny to say. Sorry.
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EaglesEaglesEagles

17 Mar 15 11.29pm

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Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 11.01am

Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 17 Mar 2015 9.39am

Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 9.14am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Mar 2015 2.05pm

Quote dannyh at 16 Mar 2015 1.59pm

I like the idea of God and Jesus and all that stuff of course, who wouldn't, but my adult brain thinks,,,no actually, it knows, that the bible is full of absolute dog toffee that has been proven beyond any doubt to be bollicks. Espeically the old testament crap, Adam and Eve Noah and all that old tosh.

In fairness, even most of the writers of that era wouldn't really have expected people to take stories at face value.

Classical literature of the time (and before) very much uses the concept of fables, parables and metaphor as key elements. No one would read Ovid's Metamorphosis and think 'ah right, that's literal'. Similarly, Rabbi's don't generally refer to the Torrah (and the old testament books) as being literal events.

Although there is a lot of evidence to support the idea of a few 'great floods', the ark isn't supposed to be taken as anything more than a metaphor. The film is much better than the book.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (16 Mar 2015 2.05pm)

pah !

Christianity in it's wisdom says the world is only 6000 years old. We all know the earth is billions of years old, Thats the book of genesis kicked into touch without even breaking sweat, and thats the basis of the entire bible.

Oh yeah did I mention a talking snake ?

Human Knowledge was limited ? can you explain the pyramids for me again then. And if God if so wise why are thousands of children dying of hunger and starvation as we speak, doesn't seem very wise to me.

2) Much of the Bible's language is allegorical. The point of the talking snake and events in the first part of Genesis is to detail the relationship of good and ever and man's relationship to God. Whether it actually happened or not is irrelevant. The seven days thing is simple creation myth language.

It's interesting that you say whether it happened or not is irrelevant, so as a christian (clearly) you are saying the story of creation as written in the king James bible is irrelavant. It's only irrelavant because even you in your Jesus is great slanted look at life know that it is simply bollocks. The Earth has stood for billions of years it wasn't made in 7 days by the big sky fairy, and Adam and Eve were not the first humans on Earth, Try reading a factual book on Darwinism.

3) I know that the insightful wisdom you clearly possess coupled with a delightful cynicism is unique, but Christians have heard it all before. I don't know why you're so self-centred to highlight talking snakes etc., but your points are neither original nor of any interest to anyone else.

It is not isightful wisdom it is fact. Pure cold scientific FACT. My Cynicism is far from unique, before you have me burnt at the stake (another enligtened Christian pass time) why dont you google Atheist at see how many there are out there.

Christians do not care in the slightest what your position is because you do not have the faculties to present tricky problematic doctrinal and theological problems for Christianity but point out logical flaws that a moron (you maybe?) could recognise.

I could go to great length in theoligical debate with you as I was brought up a catholic and went to a catholic school, but people like you dont listen to reasoned debate, your like the women out of the film paul, who when confronted with an Alien, sank to her knees and receited Amazing grace! I would also argue that if I a "moron" can point out such open and easily discreditable bible tosh then what does it say about those that belive it (you?)

If Christians are being moronic to you then so be it but Christians don't care. Christianity is a faith-based religion and requires far more nuanced insight with regard to fallacies in order to form a more coherent theology in regard to scripture.

Oh so because you believe in some omni present Sky Fairy that makes you brighter than me, Listen mate I don't care what you believe but you have no more proof to your belief system than I could provide to show aliens exist. Different people believe differen things, I chose not to belive in wholsale religion because then I don't have to aleinate other just becuase they believe in a different type of fairy at the bottom of the garden than I do.

4) Join the national secular society. Funnily enough you might learn something.

About the NSS

We work in the UK and Europe to challenge the disproportionate influence of religion on governments and in public life. We provide a secular voice in the media, defending freedom and equality as a counterbalance to the powerful religious lobby and some of the more destructive religious impulses that can threaten human rights worldwide.

You know I just might.

Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 11.03am)

Yo, Danny old buddy old pal.

I just realised who exactly you are and that we had a similar argument five years ago and that you sent me these private messages off the forum:

dannyh
'Tell you what mate you keep on being abusive, all it proves is that you catholics are all the same, how dare someone disagree with your religious views.
I'll tell you what as well hard man why don't you meet me and say that stuff to my face,
t***t'

------------

EaglesEaglesEagles
'Listen, why are you saying this to me and why not on the forum. I don't understand, apart from calling you stupid I tried to show you how you are wrong, not being abusive without anything to back me up. I apologise for doing this though, I realise I was too heated, I'm sorry. A forum is a forum for a reason and for debate, so I don't understand your concept of one. To be honest you atheists in this country are the same: how someone dare believe in Catholicism/any faith and you show so much hate. I wouldn't have replied to your specific post if it hadn't angered me so much.
Well you wouldn't say those things face to face with a catholic who is equally violent as you but much bigger and stronger than you. Or would you hard man?'

------------

dannyh
'Yes I would You see the thing is unlike you what ever I put on a messarge board I would say to someones face I dont hide behind anything, Ask anyone who knows me on here.
As for Catholics I was brought up as one, went to an all Boys Catholic school, mass every sunday, but when I was old enough to make up my own mind I realised that if God or jesus could see how their word has been warped and twisted they would not be to chuffed.
The Catholic church is clouded in controversy always has been.
Your a blinkered fool.'

Not saying that this does anything to disprove your argument or further mine but I think you're a bit of a prick as a person and I don't think there is any point to further debate. I personally since then have changed my opinion and do not think atheists are all the same. Other people on the forum have far stronger and interesting arguments than you and you don't want to listen, just criticise after a childhood Catholic experience which seems to have scarred you.

You are dismissive to the point of abusive on points of view which contradict yours. To you they are dangerous and should be derided and destroyed if possible.
You belittle faith but personally I can't fathom how life can simply exists after having been a bunch of material and chemicals. Nor can I see how time can never have existed and that everything is infinite.
I'm not sure you can explain that by science. Maybe ask jamiemartin, he has a pretty good idea of the argument, although I can't fathom it myself. I think just in a general sense you are unintelligent and rude. I'm separating you from thousands upon thousands of atheists who are highly intelligent and create fascinating, challenging concepts.

Edited by EaglesEaglesEagles (17 Mar 2015 11.32pm)

I ain't got nuthin' funny to say. Sorry.

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reborn 18 Mar 15 11.26am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.56pm Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger. The reason they do is the selfishness of man. Why is that God's fault? No it is not. lets just suppose God is reall for minute, famine and drought have to be his (Gods) fault and if we are all made in his image and children are innocent why would he allow children to die of famine because of a lack of something as easy to conjure up as rain (considering he made the whole shabang in 7 days a little bit of rain shouldnt be too tricky.) Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc. It's all well and good saying its the evil/selfishness of man but to me that is just deflective bulls* from the real reason he does nothing, which is more than likley A) he doesn't give a fcuk (think on that one next time you watch a 1 month old baby die from ebola) or B) he doesnt exist. I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck. I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious f*ing ways alright. Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm) Indeed, we regard it immoral to do nothing to prevent these crimes ourselves, when we lack real individual agency to affect them, so why does an omniscient and omnipotent god get a pass? Surely power entails a responsibility to use it? Do we, do we really? If the prevailing attitudes on this board are anything to go by, then the man in the street is very much in the 'Im ok Jack' camp. At the very least most are in the, 'ahhh its a shame, but its not my fault' camp. If God created the world and all in it for man, then man and man alone has the responsibility for it IMO. Whether you believe in God or not, I find it remarkable that problems that are clearly with the ability of man to fix, are held up against God, which in itself is an enormous paradox, because how can you blame something you don't think exists? My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs
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reborn 18 Mar 15 11.26am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.56pm

Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm

Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm

Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger.

The reason they do is the selfishness of man.

Why is that God's fault?

Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc.

I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck.

I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious f***ing ways alright.

Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm)

Do we, do we really?

If the prevailing attitudes on this board are anything to go by, then the man in the street is very much in the 'Im ok Jack' camp. At the very least most are in the, 'ahhh its a shame, but its not my fault' camp.

If God created the world and all in it for man, then man and man alone has the responsibility for it IMO.

Whether you believe in God or not, I find it remarkable that problems that are clearly with the ability of man to fix, are held up against God, which in itself is an enormous paradox, because how can you blame something you don't think exists?

My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs

Alert a moderator to this post

dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 18 Mar 15 11.27am
Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 17 Mar 2015 11.29pm Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 11.01am Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 17 Mar 2015 9.39am Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 9.14am Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Mar 2015 2.05pm Quote dannyh at 16 Mar 2015 1.59pm I like the idea of God and Jesus and all that stuff of course, who wouldn't, but my adult brain thinks,,,no actually, it knows, that the bible is full of absolute dog toffee that has been proven beyond any doubt to be bollicks. Espeically the old testament crap, Adam and Eve Noah and all that old tosh. In fairness, even most of the writers of that era wouldn't really have expected people to take stories at face value. Classical literature of the time (and before) very much uses the concept of fables, parables and metaphor as key elements. No one would read Ovid's Metamorphosis and think 'ah right, that's literal'. Similarly, Rabbi's don't generally refer to the Torrah (and the old testament books) as being literal events. Although there is a lot of evidence to support the idea of a few 'great floods', the ark isn't supposed to be taken as anything more than a metaphor. The film is much better than the book. Edited by jamiemartin721 (16 Mar 2015 2.05pm) pah ! Christianity in it's wisdom says the world is only 6000 years old. We all know the earth is billions of years old, Thats the book of genesis kicked into touch without even breaking sweat, and thats the basis of the entire bible. Oh yeah did I mention a talking snake ? 1) The vast majority of Christians and Jews do not see the Bible as the literal word of God. Although many think it is inspired by the Holy Spirit, it is likely to have heaps of factual imperfections because human knowledge (especially then, was limited). That is emphasised in opposition to God's infinite wisdom. Human Knowledge was limited ? can you explain the pyramids for me again then. And if God if so wise why are thousands of children dying of hunger and starvation as we speak, doesn't seem very wise to me. 2) Much of the Bible's language is allegorical. The point of the talking snake and events in the first part of Genesis is to detail the relationship of good and ever and man's relationship to God. Whether it actually happened or not is irrelevant. The seven days thing is simple creation myth language. It's interesting that you say whether it happened or not is irrelevant, so as a christian (clearly) you are saying the story of creation as written in the king James bible is irrelavant. It's only irrelavant because even you in your Jesus is great slanted look at life know that it is simply bollocks. The Earth has stood for billions of years it wasn't made in 7 days by the big sky fairy, and Adam and Eve were not the first humans on Earth, Try reading a factual book on Darwinism. 3) I know that the insightful wisdom you clearly possess coupled with a delightful cynicism is unique, but Christians have heard it all before. I don't know why you're so self-centred to highlight talking snakes etc., but your points are neither original nor of any interest to anyone else. It is not isightful wisdom it is fact. Pure cold scientific FACT. My Cynicism is far from unique, before you have me burnt at the stake (another enligtened Christian pass time) why dont you google Atheist at see how many there are out there. Christians do not care in the slightest what your position is because you do not have the faculties to present tricky problematic doctrinal and theological problems for Christianity but point out logical flaws that a moron (you maybe?) could recognise. I could go to great length in theoligical debate with you as I was brought up a catholic and went to a catholic school, but people like you dont listen to reasoned debate, your like the women out of the film paul, who when confronted with an Alien, sank to her knees and receited Amazing grace! I would also argue that if I a "moron" can point out such open and easily discreditable bible tosh then what does it say about those that belive it (you?) If Christians are being moronic to you then so be it but Christians don't care. Christianity is a faith-based religion and requires far more nuanced insight with regard to fallacies in order to form a more coherent theology in regard to scripture. Oh so because you believe in some omni present Sky Fairy that makes you brighter than me, Listen mate I don't care what you believe but you have no more proof to your belief system than I could provide to show aliens exist. Different people believe differen things, I chose not to belive in wholsale religion because then I don't have to aleinate other just becuase they believe in a different type of fairy at the bottom of the garden than I do. 4) Join the national secular society. Funnily enough you might learn something. About the NSS We work in the UK and Europe to challenge the disproportionate influence of religion on governments and in public life. We provide a secular voice in the media, defending freedom and equality as a counterbalance to the powerful religious lobby and some of the more destructive religious impulses that can threaten human rights worldwide. You know I just might. Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 11.03am) Yo, Danny old buddy old pal. I just realised who exactly you are and that we had a similar argument five years ago and that you sent me these private messages off the forum: dannyh 'Tell you what mate you keep on being abusive, all it proves is that you catholics are all the same, how dare someone disagree with your religious views. I'll tell you what as well hard man why don't you meet me and say that stuff to my face, t***t' ------------ EaglesEaglesEagles 'Listen, why are you saying this to me and why not on the forum. I don't understand, apart from calling you stupid I tried to show you how you are wrong, not being abusive without anything to back me up. I apologise for doing this though, I realise I was too heated, I'm sorry. A forum is a forum for a reason and for debate, so I don't understand your concept of one. To be honest you atheists in this country are the same: how someone dare believe in Catholicism/any faith and you show so much hate. I wouldn't have replied to your specific post if it hadn't angered me so much. Well you wouldn't say those things face to face with a catholic who is equally violent as you but much bigger and stronger than you. Or would you hard man?' ------------ dannyh 'Yes I would You see the thing is unlike you what ever I put on a messarge board I would say to someones face I dont hide behind anything, Ask anyone who knows me on here. As for Catholics I was brought up as one, went to an all Boys Catholic school, mass every sunday, but when I was old enough to make up my own mind I realised that if God or jesus could see how their word has been warped and twisted they would not be to chuffed. The Catholic church is clouded in controversy always has been. Your a blinkered fool.' Not saying that this does anything to disprove your argument or further mine but I think you're a bit of a prick as a person and I don't think there is any point to further debate. I personally since then have changed my opinion and do not think atheists are all the same. Other people on the forum have far stronger and interesting arguments than you and you don't want to listen, just criticise after a childhood Catholic experience which seems to have scarred you. You are dismissive to the point of abusive on points of view which contradict yours. To you they are dangerous and should be derided and destroyed if possible. You belittle faith but personally I can't fathom how life can simply exists after having been a bunch of material and chemicals. Nor can I see how time can never have existed and that everything is infinite. I'm not sure you can explain that by science. Maybe ask jamiemartin, he has a pretty good idea of the argument, although I can't fathom it myself. I think just in a general sense you are unintelligent and rude. I'm separating you from thousands upon thousands of atheists who are highly intelligent and create fascinating, challenging concepts. Edited by EaglesEaglesEagles (17 Mar 2015 11.32pm) Ahhh the last defence of the beaten, name calling and an unswerving ability to simply belittle points that religious types simply dismiss because the alternative (when they stop waffling about an argument 5 years ago, dude you really kept that for five years, your weird) is to have to admit that their belief system is based on nothing more, than a book written a long long time ago, and that has very little historical fact to it. I might bury a copy of Lord of the Rings in a cave somewhere, who knows it might be found hundreds if not thousands of years from now and start a new religion based on Frodo being the new messiah. I love the fact you call me rude and unintelligent, your not showing yourself as much better are you ? The fact is this you believe in an omnipresent infallible God. My point is that there is way to much suffering across the globe for your beliefs to hold water. And your attitude to people like myself is similar to that of anyone who has stood up to the church over the years. But time moves on, (unlike you) and fortunately for me you can't burn "heretics" at the stake anymore. Edited by dannyh (18 Mar 2015 11.41am) "It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
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dannyh

wherever I lay my hat....... 18 Mar 15 11.27am

Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 17 Mar 2015 11.29pm

Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 11.01am

Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 17 Mar 2015 9.39am

Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 9.14am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Mar 2015 2.05pm

Quote dannyh at 16 Mar 2015 1.59pm

In fairness, even most of the writers of that era wouldn't really have expected people to take stories at face value.

Although there is a lot of evidence to support the idea of a few 'great floods', the ark isn't supposed to be taken as anything more than a metaphor. The film is much better than the book.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (16 Mar 2015 2.05pm)

pah !

Oh yeah did I mention a talking snake ?

4) Join the national secular society. Funnily enough you might learn something.

About the NSS

You know I just might.

Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 11.03am)

Yo, Danny old buddy old pal.

I just realised who exactly you are and that we had a similar argument five years ago and that you sent me these private messages off the forum:

------------

Edited by EaglesEaglesEagles (17 Mar 2015 11.32pm)

Ahhh the last defence of the beaten, name calling and an unswerving ability to simply belittle points that religious types simply dismiss because the alternative (when they stop waffling about an argument 5 years ago, dude you really kept that for five years, your weird) is to have to admit that their belief system is based on nothing more, than a book written a long long time ago, and that has very little historical fact to it.

I might bury a copy of Lord of the Rings in a cave somewhere, who knows it might be found hundreds if not thousands of years from now and start a new religion based on Frodo being the new messiah.

I love the fact you call me rude and unintelligent, your not showing yourself as much better are you ?

The fact is this you believe in an omnipresent infallible God.

My point is that there is way to much suffering across the globe for your beliefs to hold water. And your attitude to people like myself is similar to that of anyone who has stood up to the church over the years. But time moves on, (unlike you) and fortunately for me you can't burn "heretics" at the stake anymore.

Edited by dannyh (18 Mar 2015 11.41am)

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Mar 15 12.50pm
Quote reborn at 18 Mar 2015 11.26am Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.56pm Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger. The reason they do is the selfishness of man. Why is that God's fault? No it is not. lets just suppose God is reall for minute, famine and drought have to be his (Gods) fault and if we are all made in his image and children are innocent why would he allow children to die of famine because of a lack of something as easy to conjure up as rain (considering he made the whole shabang in 7 days a little bit of rain shouldnt be too tricky.) Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc. It's all well and good saying its the evil/selfishness of man but to me that is just deflective bulls* from the real reason he does nothing, which is more than likley A) he doesn't give a fcuk (think on that one next time you watch a 1 month old baby die from ebola) or B) he doesnt exist. I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck. I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious f*ing ways alright. Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm) Indeed, we regard it immoral to do nothing to prevent these crimes ourselves, when we lack real individual agency to affect them, so why does an omniscient and omnipotent god get a pass? Surely power entails a responsibility to use it? Do we, do we really? If the prevailing attitudes on this board are anything to go by, then the man in the street is very much in the 'Im ok Jack' camp. At the very least most are in the, 'ahhh its a shame, but its not my fault' camp. If God created the world and all in it for man, then man and man alone has the responsibility for it IMO. Whether you believe in God or not, I find it remarkable that problems that are clearly with the ability of man to fix, are held up against God, which in itself is an enormous paradox, because how can you blame something you don't think exists? Philosophically speaking, yes we do, we regard allowing a person to die when you have the power to prevent it to be immoral without suitable justification, and in some cases criminal. If god created the world and all in it for man, including man, isn't the design flaws part of the consequence of the designer? Which contradicts a god that is omniscient and omnipotent - Even if man is responsible, through the 'first sin', wouldn't the omniscient god known that that outcome was inevitable from the moment of creation? These paradoxs and problems, are actually what makes religion interesting to me, a very atheist atheist (I generally find most atheists to simply have replaced supernatural Salvationism with technological salavtionism). Its an interesting metaphysical exercise. I don't disbelieve in god or gods or goddesses (I've experienced a vision of Mictlantecuhtli, the Aztec god of death and the night). The problem I have lies with the attribution of metaphysical characteristics and statements about 'the one true god' that cannot be validated, or are contradictory to 'presumptions' about god, and the use of religion to establish political power and influence, over others. I also think, that the idea of a singular god, presents an philosophical quandary, given that numerous faiths and deities are both worshiped and accounted for, that have an equal possibility of being real. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 18 Mar 15 12.50pm

Quote reborn at 18 Mar 2015 11.26am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Mar 2015 2.56pm

Quote dannyh at 17 Mar 2015 2.43pm

Quote reborn at 17 Mar 2015 1.37pm

Question Dan, there's more than enough food in the world for everyone to get fed and no-one die of hunger.

The reason they do is the selfishness of man.

Why is that God's fault?

Why does God in his all seeing all knowing capacity of Number 1 top dog, allow people to become so depressed they kill themselves, or peado's to rape and murder, etc etc.

I would like to think it's the latter and no God could be that much of a unfeeling pri1ck.

I'm not digging you out not at all, far from it. BUT you have to admit taking the above into account he certainly does move in mysterious f***ing ways alright.

Edited by dannyh (17 Mar 2015 2.46pm)

Do we, do we really?

If God created the world and all in it for man, then man and man alone has the responsibility for it IMO.

Philosophically speaking, yes we do, we regard allowing a person to die when you have the power to prevent it to be immoral without suitable justification, and in some cases criminal.

If god created the world and all in it for man, including man, isn't the design flaws part of the consequence of the designer? Which contradicts a god that is omniscient and omnipotent - Even if man is responsible, through the 'first sin', wouldn't the omniscient god known that that outcome was inevitable from the moment of creation?

These paradoxs and problems, are actually what makes religion interesting to me, a very atheist atheist (I generally find most atheists to simply have replaced supernatural Salvationism with technological salavtionism).

Its an interesting metaphysical exercise. I don't disbelieve in god or gods or goddesses (I've experienced a vision of Mictlantecuhtli, the Aztec god of death and the night). The problem I have lies with the attribution of metaphysical characteristics and statements about 'the one true god' that cannot be validated, or are contradictory to 'presumptions' about god, and the use of religion to establish political power and influence, over others.

I also think, that the idea of a singular god, presents an philosophical quandary, given that numerous faiths and deities are both worshiped and accounted for, that have an equal possibility of being real.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Mar 15 12.55pm
Quote dannyh at 18 Mar 2015 11.27am Ahhh the last defence of the beaten, name calling and an unswerving ability to simply belittle points that religious types simply dismiss because the alternative (when they stop waffling about an argument 5 years ago, dude you really kept that for five years, your weird) is to have to admit that their belief system is based on nothing more, than a book written a long long time ago, and that has very little historical fact to it. I might bury a copy of Lord of the Rings in a cave somewhere, who knows it might be found hundreds if not thousands of years from now and start a new religion based on Frodo being the new messiah. I love the fact you call me rude and unintelligent, your not showing yourself as much better are you ? The fact is this you believe in an omnipresent infallible God. My point is that there is way to much suffering across the globe for your beliefs to hold water. And your attitude to people like myself is similar to that of anyone who has stood up to the church over the years. But time moves on, (unlike you) and fortunately for me you can't burn "heretics" at the stake anymore. Edited by dannyh (18 Mar 2015 11.41am) An interesting aside, but arguably you could make the claim that 'Elvis' has achieved, at least in some regards, a religious status, in which increasingly the mythological and real have become increasingly blurred and that a form of faith (in his non-death) has occurred among many fans. Indeed there are a number of Elvis religious movements - which we may see as absurd, but are they really any more absurd than 'Mormanism' or 'Plymouth Brethren' or Jahova Witnesses, as offshoot brands of Christainity. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 18 Mar 15 12.55pm

Quote dannyh at 18 Mar 2015 11.27am

I might bury a copy of Lord of the Rings in a cave somewhere, who knows it might be found hundreds if not thousands of years from now and start a new religion based on Frodo being the new messiah.

I love the fact you call me rude and unintelligent, your not showing yourself as much better are you ?

The fact is this you believe in an omnipresent infallible God.

Edited by dannyh (18 Mar 2015 11.41am)

An interesting aside, but arguably you could make the claim that 'Elvis' has achieved, at least in some regards, a religious status, in which increasingly the mythological and real have become increasingly blurred and that a form of faith (in his non-death) has occurred among many fans.

Indeed there are a number of Elvis religious movements - which we may see as absurd, but are they really any more absurd than 'Mormanism' or 'Plymouth Brethren' or Jahova Witnesses, as offshoot brands of Christainity.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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