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Islam religion of peace?
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 silvertop  Portishead 06 Mar 15 11.52am |
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Quote reborn at 06 Mar 2015 11.24am
Quote silvertop at 06 Mar 2015 11.02am
Quote ParchmoreEagle at 06 Mar 2015 8.42am
Quote Kermit8 at 06 Mar 2015 8.17am
1,200 million Muslims in the world. A few million are sect-based jihadi nutters and nothing like the others. So if the other 99% are not engaged in nor sympathise with extreme religious violence then I suppose it is fair to say it can be classed as very peaceful overall - unlike plenty of politicians - and made up of people just like you and me more concerned with friends, food, sport and tv than Sharia. according to Wiki:
Adhere to any interpretation you like, fine by me, as long as it doesn't mean that you want to kill and harm people who don't believe the same as you. Therein lies the key I think. What I was trying to say, is that it is an error to say that those who practise at the more dogmatic, orthodox end of Islam are also hell bent on destroying the West, murdering those of other religions or ethnicity and so on. They may want a society based on a strict interpretation of Sharia law, their views on women may remain in the dark ages, but the inference that there are 400 million terrorists out there is ludicrous. The Qur'an is very clear on murder and strict application of Sharia law means that the vast majority of those 400 million Muslims abhor ISIS, Al Qaeda and the rest of that happy bunch. It is all in the branding - "radical" is a very loaded word created to suit a purpose. Would Western countries acquiesce so easily with the diversion of scarce resources and the loss of liberties acquired over centuries if it involved taking the fight to evangelical Muslims?
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EaglesEaglesEagles  06 Mar 15 12.05pm |
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I think the fact that the Koran is seen as the true unfailing word of God by many Muslims is a problem. This means that radical preachers can be highly influential on young men and women because they present the word of God in the Koran as being unfailing and clear. Who is to argue with that?! Also, there is no real big dog figure in Islam to tell these guys to stop. Am I wrong? All I hear is local Imams in London and normal Muslims condemning it. That's not enough. Where is a big time religious worldwide figure in Islam to condemn this activity?! Either there is no Pope/Archbishop of Canterbury/Dalai Lama equivalent, or the big dogs support ISIS. And to say that there are Sunnis and Shias and smaller Muslim groups isn't a real excuse. After all, look at the division in Christianity. These groups should have leaders who are respected. And they should speak out if Islam really is being misinterpreted surely?
I ain't got nuthin' funny to say. Sorry. |
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| MileFan 06 Mar 15 12.19pm |
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religion sucks but I think Jews are a lot more dangerous than Muslims.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 06 Mar 15 12.36pm |
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Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 06 Mar 2015 12.05pm
I think the fact that the Koran is seen as the true unfailing word of God by many Muslims is a problem. This means that radical preachers can be highly influential on young men and women because they present the word of God in the Koran as being unfailing and clear. Who is to argue with that?! Also, there is no real big dog figure in Islam to tell these guys to stop. Am I wrong? All I hear is local Imams in London and normal Muslims condemning it. That's not enough. Where is a big time religious worldwide figure in Islam to condemn this activity?! Either there is no Pope/Archbishop of Canterbury/Dalai Lama equivalent, or the big dogs support ISIS. And to say that there are Sunnis and Shias and smaller Muslim groups isn't a real excuse. After all, look at the division in Christianity. These groups should have leaders who are respected. And they should speak out if Islam really is being misinterpreted surely? I don't think that's a specific issue of just Islam, people who accept anything as a literal unequivicable unfaltering truth are a) stupid b) dangerous, everything is subjective in human existence (demonstrated in neurological and philosophical basis) - So consequently all truths really stem either from a simplification / removal of assumptions that define the context or from the subjective experience of the individual. You do realize that Sunni muslims, Kurd Muslims and Shia muslims are at the for front of fighting IS in Iraq and Syria. Most of the core Islamic faith groups do have key Imams and leaders. What you have to bear in mind is that IS isn't really a faith, its a collective group of Muslims 'fighting' togeather as a mujahaden - Although it does have its basis in Wabbism (the key Islamic faith dominant in Saudi Arabia (which is officially on our side). IS a bit of a mongrel of Sunni tribes from the Syrian and Iraq border areas and volunteers jyhadists drawn from other muslim groups. Incidently, the Pope only has sway over the Catholic Church and the Arch Bishop of Cantabury over the Church of England (and to a degree the international Anglican Church). There are a lot of Muslim leaders of faiths, its just that we tend to lump everyone into Muslim (which is the equivilant of saying Christian and Christian Sect - which would be as varied as the Quakers and the Christian Militias - ie nothing in common other than the word Christ). Even when you say Sunni, you have different types of Sunni islam.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 06 Mar 15 12.40pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Mar 2015 11.00am
I heard this morning that ISIS are now destroying ancient art thousands of years old as they capture more land in Iraq. That might be their undoing as people care more about artefacts than human suffering! To the OP though, I agree with others who rightly state that pitting one religion against another is the cause of the world's problems. Why do all you religious zealots insist on thrusting your beliefs on others? I am enlightened enough thank you. IS - they're no longer ISIS as they 'declared' they territory in Syria and Iraq as a combined Islamic State / Calaphate. They've had a lot of names over the years, ever since they were Al-Qaeda in Iraq - they tend to change name every time as major event occurs, or they change policy - they're good a media and propaganda. They've become the new 'Al Qaeda' brand for Islamist movements.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| EaglesEaglesEagles 06 Mar 15 1.59pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Mar 2015 12.36pm
Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 06 Mar 2015 12.05pm
I think the fact that the Koran is seen as the true unfailing word of God by many Muslims is a problem. This means that radical preachers can be highly influential on young men and women because they present the word of God in the Koran as being unfailing and clear. Who is to argue with that?! Also, there is no real big dog figure in Islam to tell these guys to stop. Am I wrong? All I hear is local Imams in London and normal Muslims condemning it. That's not enough. Where is a big time religious worldwide figure in Islam to condemn this activity?! Either there is no Pope/Archbishop of Canterbury/Dalai Lama equivalent, or the big dogs support ISIS. And to say that there are Sunnis and Shias and smaller Muslim groups isn't a real excuse. After all, look at the division in Christianity. These groups should have leaders who are respected. And they should speak out if Islam really is being misinterpreted surely? I don't think that's a specific issue of just Islam, people who accept anything as a literal unequivicable unfaltering truth are a) stupid b) dangerous, everything is subjective in human existence (demonstrated in neurological and philosophical basis) - So consequently all truths really stem either from a simplification / removal of assumptions that define the context or from the subjective experience of the individual. You do realize that Sunni muslims, Kurd Muslims and Shia muslims are at the for front of fighting IS in Iraq and Syria. Most of the core Islamic faith groups do have key Imams and leaders. What you have to bear in mind is that IS isn't really a faith, its a collective group of Muslims 'fighting' togeather as a mujahaden - Although it does have its basis in Wabbism (the key Islamic faith dominant in Saudi Arabia (which is officially on our side). IS a bit of a mongrel of Sunni tribes from the Syrian and Iraq border areas and volunteers jyhadists drawn from other muslim groups. Incidently, the Pope only has sway over the Catholic Church and the Arch Bishop of Cantabury over the Church of England (and to a degree the international Anglican Church). There are a lot of Muslim leaders of faiths, its just that we tend to lump everyone into Muslim (which is the equivilant of saying Christian and Christian Sect - which would be as varied as the Quakers and the Christian Militias - ie nothing in common other than the word Christ). Even when you say Sunni, you have different types of Sunni islam. I was very much aware of the Pope's sway over only Catholicism and the Archbishop of Canterbury over the C of E. I mentioned them because they are two of the most influential and well known leaders to Britons. I know that isn't the main point though. I must say that sometimes your reductionist approach of psychology, science and the philosophy of truth in relation to this is far too generalised. Is what you're saying is that everyone will have their turn? Will every little subsection of faith and belief group at some point become as destructive and horrible as these guys? Obviously we can look at history and say yes and list off atrocity after atrocity and link it all back to each and every religion (look at murderous Buddhist monks in Thailand at the moment) and then pat ourselves on the head and stem it all back to microbiology. You're a clever bloke but I think you get too caught up in a wider superinclusive illustration of humanity and its foibles. That is not the point here. We are looking at a certain case study. During my non-extensive research, a seemingly normal website describes the Koran as 'the unaltered and direct words of God, which were revealed through the Angel Gabriel to Muhammad'. That is a fundamental of Islam, not some weird interpretation of it like the Westboro Baptist Church but the whole faith of Islam as a whole. A minuscule proportion of Christians see the Bible in this way. I realise that ISIS isn't a faith but a terror group. But it draws its roots from the Muslim faith and is far more religiously based than the IRA. Everything is done for Allah. And yeah there are loads of Sunnis and Shias fighting ISIS because the group's creating political instability and they're opposed to ISIS as they don't support terrorism. But you've hit the nail on the head! There are heaps of Sunni tribes, Shia tribes. But the fact is that although we shove everything together, there doesn't seem to be a concerted effort to my eyes at least in the Muslim world to speak out against the ideology! Maybe the actions but not the ideology. And people like Jihadi John go to normal mosques in London and become really influenced by radical preachers! Is this just a normal thing in Muslim communities!? Parent: "Beware of the murderous preachers, they're wrong". There's no one major bigdog out there to instruct these guys on moral doctrine or actions, just Imams and radical preachers with their own interpretations of the Koran, which probably contains a whole lot of good, honest stuff (I haven't read it). There is no 'real Islam' because no human can be sure exactly what the true unaltered word of God exactly suggests. Unfortunately, in the case of ISIS, the problem is with the setup of the faith but not, I stress with the majority of its followers. Edited by EaglesEaglesEagles (06 Mar 2015 2.04pm)
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 06 Mar 15 2.49pm |
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Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 06 Mar 2015 1.59pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Mar 2015 12.36pm
Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 06 Mar 2015 12.05pm
I think the fact that the Koran is seen as the true unfailing word of God by many Muslims is a problem. This means that radical preachers can be highly influential on young men and women because they present the word of God in the Koran as being unfailing and clear. Who is to argue with that?! Also, there is no real big dog figure in Islam to tell these guys to stop. Am I wrong? All I hear is local Imams in London and normal Muslims condemning it. That's not enough. Where is a big time religious worldwide figure in Islam to condemn this activity?! Either there is no Pope/Archbishop of Canterbury/Dalai Lama equivalent, or the big dogs support ISIS. And to say that there are Sunnis and Shias and smaller Muslim groups isn't a real excuse. After all, look at the division in Christianity. These groups should have leaders who are respected. And they should speak out if Islam really is being misinterpreted surely? I don't think that's a specific issue of just Islam, people who accept anything as a literal unequivicable unfaltering truth are a) stupid b) dangerous, everything is subjective in human existence (demonstrated in neurological and philosophical basis) - So consequently all truths really stem either from a simplification / removal of assumptions that define the context or from the subjective experience of the individual. You do realize that Sunni muslims, Kurd Muslims and Shia muslims are at the for front of fighting IS in Iraq and Syria. Most of the core Islamic faith groups do have key Imams and leaders. What you have to bear in mind is that IS isn't really a faith, its a collective group of Muslims 'fighting' togeather as a mujahaden - Although it does have its basis in Wabbism (the key Islamic faith dominant in Saudi Arabia (which is officially on our side). IS a bit of a mongrel of Sunni tribes from the Syrian and Iraq border areas and volunteers jyhadists drawn from other muslim groups. Incidently, the Pope only has sway over the Catholic Church and the Arch Bishop of Cantabury over the Church of England (and to a degree the international Anglican Church). There are a lot of Muslim leaders of faiths, its just that we tend to lump everyone into Muslim (which is the equivilant of saying Christian and Christian Sect - which would be as varied as the Quakers and the Christian Militias - ie nothing in common other than the word Christ). Even when you say Sunni, you have different types of Sunni islam. I was very much aware of the Pope's sway over only Catholicism and the Archbishop of Canterbury over the C of E. I mentioned them because they are two of the most influential and well known leaders to Britons. I know that isn't the main point though. I must say that sometimes your reductionist approach of psychology, science and the philosophy of truth in relation to this is far too generalised. Is what you're saying is that everyone will have their turn? Will every little subsection of faith and belief group at some point become as destructive and horrible as these guys? Obviously we can look at history and say yes and list off atrocity after atrocity and link it all back to each and every religion (look at murderous Buddhist monks in Thailand at the moment) and then pat ourselves on the head and stem it all back to microbiology. You're a clever bloke but I think you get too caught up in a wider superinclusive illustration of humanity and its foibles. That is not the point here. We are looking at a certain case study. During my non-extensive research, a seemingly normal website describes the Koran as 'the unaltered and direct words of God, which were revealed through the Angel Gabriel to Muhammad'. That is a fundamental of Islam, not some weird interpretation of it like the Westboro Baptist Church but the whole faith of Islam as a whole. A minuscule proportion of Christians see the Bible in this way. I realise that ISIS isn't a faith but a terror group. But it draws its roots from the Muslim faith and is far more religiously based than the IRA. Everything is done for Allah. And yeah there are loads of Sunnis and Shias fighting ISIS because the group's creating political instability and they're opposed to ISIS as they don't support terrorism. But you've hit the nail on the head! There are heaps of Sunni tribes, Shia tribes. But the fact is that although we shove everything together, there doesn't seem to be a concerted effort to my eyes at least in the Muslim world to speak out against the ideology! Maybe the actions but not the ideology. And people like Jihadi John go to normal mosques in London and become really influenced by radical preachers! Is this just a normal thing in Muslim communities!? Parent: "Beware of the murderous preachers, they're wrong". There's no one major bigdog out there to instruct these guys on moral doctrine or actions, just Imams and radical preachers with their own interpretations of the Koran, which probably contains a whole lot of good, honest stuff (I haven't read it). There is no 'real Islam' because no human can be sure exactly what the true unaltered word of God exactly suggests. Unfortunately, in the case of ISIS, the problem is with the setup of the faith but not, I stress with the majority of its followers. Edited by EaglesEaglesEagles (06 Mar 2015 2.04pm) I think its fairly normal for a minority of youth, particually young, men, to become enamoured with extremist views, there is nothing new in that - The lure of adventure coupled with the righteousness of youth, tends to be the foundation of terrorist and rebel groups cannon fodder across the world. It probably doesn't help that we as a society place such an emphasis on the idea of standing up for what you believe in etc (a nationally shared value that kind of invites trouble). Quite a lot of stories recently have come out of the British Muslim communities about familys reacting to relatives who've gone to fight for IS, along with a conviction today, in which the judge praised the lengths that the family had gone to to prevent someone leaving the UK. Of course in places like Iraq, Syria etc you do have countries and people to whom the idea of cruelty and violence as a means of control are the norm, they grew up with that, as did their parents, under the previous regime. Also, given they're Sunni Iraqi's, the favoured under Saddams Regime, its hardly surprising they've got an issue with the US and UK - as we have been arguably responsible, from their perspective, for their fall from power, reduced circumstances, the deaths of friends and family etc (its worth noting that Kurdish Muslims look quite favourably on the West - because of the opposite). Its important to look into the politics of the middle east, and its history, to see that being an Islamist and being a Muslim are two very different things - Islamists are a political movement of Muslims first and foremost - In very much the same way the PIRA and Sinn Feinn had close ties with the catholic community, but were not strictly speaking a catholic movement, but a movement largely formed from catholics. Interestingly, the origins of Islamic fundermentalism lie not in the Koran, but in the suppression of political dispute and the collapse of the soviet union. Prior to the 80s, most of the radicalized movements active were Paramilitary Left Wing Radical Muslims, such as the PLO and PFLP, as well as national liberation movements. Over time the failure of these to topple, typically western back regimes, resulted in the rise of groups like Islamic Jyhad and Hamas, which stem from peaceful movements, radicalized by the suppression of political dissent in the middle east (ironically Islamic Jyhad were originally a non-violent movement in Egypt. The consequent arrest, execution of its leadership and wholesale torture demonstrated to Islamic Jyhad that peaceful wasn't going to work. These regimes across the middle east are fairly brutal, its unsurprising that they have bred and raised a generation of equally brutal dissenters. Hopefully, the UK and US have learned from their 'experiences' in Iraq, that 'just because someone says they're Taliban, it doesn't meant that they aren't just 'tribal rivals'.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 06 Mar 15 2.57pm |
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You can't help but get trouble when you mix religion, politics, explosives, a gospel of truth and the righteousness of youth. Young men are generally stupid and looking for excitement, stimulation and something that gives their life meaning and belonging, beyond the humdrum mundane existence. Only in this case its much more violent, than raves, football hooliganism, street gangs etc. The upper working and lower middle class youth, is the prime problem area. They've escape the hardship of their parents generation, but are alienated and to an extent entitled. In that way the youth that flee the UK to join Jyhad with IS, aren't any different than those who joined the Red Army Faction or Weather Underground etc. The only real thing to take from that is that its not just white young males that are stupid. The consequences are lost with the 'invulnerability' of youth.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stuk Top half 06 Mar 15 3.13pm |
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Quote silvertop at 06 Mar 2015 11.38am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Mar 2015 11.35am
Quote silvertop at 06 Mar 2015 11.04am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Mar 2015 11.00am
I heard this morning that ISIS are now destroying ancient art thousands of years old as they capture more land in Iraq. That might be their undoing as people care more about artefacts than human suffering! To the OP though, I agree with others who rightly state that pitting one religion against another is the cause of the world's problems. Why do all you religious zealots insist on thrusting your beliefs on others? I am enlightened enough thank you.
They're destroying portable items too, as well as selling them. No religion is one of peace. They all draw radicals who firstly believe the nonsense they spout, and then carve out their own, even more bizarre, interpretation of them.
Optimistic as ever |
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deflemonkid  06 Mar 15 3.30pm |
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Quote ParchmoreEagle at 06 Mar 2015 6.30am
Quote deflemonkid at 06 Mar 2015 2.10am
Quote ParchmoreEagle at 05 Mar 2015 11.55pm
Jihad/Crusades [Link]
I can read and "Islam Religion of Peace?", followed by three youtube links is not really a coherent question now is it. Are you asking is it a religion of peace and for us to discuss? or are you saying you don't agree with the statement that its a religion of peace and you're fobbing off three youtube videos as your proof? or are you asking something entirely different? I honestly dont know as I can only read as well as you write. Edited by deflemonkid (06 Mar 2015 3.33pm)
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| EaglesEaglesEagles 06 Mar 15 3.40pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Mar 2015 2.49pm
Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 06 Mar 2015 1.59pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Mar 2015 12.36pm
Quote EaglesEaglesEagles at 06 Mar 2015 12.05pm
I think the fact that the Koran is seen as the true unfailing word of God by many Muslims is a problem. This means that radical preachers can be highly influential on young men and women because they present the word of God in the Koran as being unfailing and clear. Who is to argue with that?! Also, there is no real big dog figure in Islam to tell these guys to stop. Am I wrong? All I hear is local Imams in London and normal Muslims condemning it. That's not enough. Where is a big time religious worldwide figure in Islam to condemn this activity?! Either there is no Pope/Archbishop of Canterbury/Dalai Lama equivalent, or the big dogs support ISIS. And to say that there are Sunnis and Shias and smaller Muslim groups isn't a real excuse. After all, look at the division in Christianity. These groups should have leaders who are respected. And they should speak out if Islam really is being misinterpreted surely? I don't think that's a specific issue of just Islam, people who accept anything as a literal unequivicable unfaltering truth are a) stupid b) dangerous, everything is subjective in human existence (demonstrated in neurological and philosophical basis) - So consequently all truths really stem either from a simplification / removal of assumptions that define the context or from the subjective experience of the individual. You do realize that Sunni muslims, Kurd Muslims and Shia muslims are at the for front of fighting IS in Iraq and Syria. Most of the core Islamic faith groups do have key Imams and leaders. What you have to bear in mind is that IS isn't really a faith, its a collective group of Muslims 'fighting' togeather as a mujahaden - Although it does have its basis in Wabbism (the key Islamic faith dominant in Saudi Arabia (which is officially on our side). IS a bit of a mongrel of Sunni tribes from the Syrian and Iraq border areas and volunteers jyhadists drawn from other muslim groups. Incidently, the Pope only has sway over the Catholic Church and the Arch Bishop of Cantabury over the Church of England (and to a degree the international Anglican Church). There are a lot of Muslim leaders of faiths, its just that we tend to lump everyone into Muslim (which is the equivilant of saying Christian and Christian Sect - which would be as varied as the Quakers and the Christian Militias - ie nothing in common other than the word Christ). Even when you say Sunni, you have different types of Sunni islam. I was very much aware of the Pope's sway over only Catholicism and the Archbishop of Canterbury over the C of E. I mentioned them because they are two of the most influential and well known leaders to Britons. I know that isn't the main point though. I must say that sometimes your reductionist approach of psychology, science and the philosophy of truth in relation to this is far too generalised. Is what you're saying is that everyone will have their turn? Will every little subsection of faith and belief group at some point become as destructive and horrible as these guys? Obviously we can look at history and say yes and list off atrocity after atrocity and link it all back to each and every religion (look at murderous Buddhist monks in Thailand at the moment) and then pat ourselves on the head and stem it all back to microbiology. You're a clever bloke but I think you get too caught up in a wider superinclusive illustration of humanity and its foibles. That is not the point here. We are looking at a certain case study. During my non-extensive research, a seemingly normal website describes the Koran as 'the unaltered and direct words of God, which were revealed through the Angel Gabriel to Muhammad'. That is a fundamental of Islam, not some weird interpretation of it like the Westboro Baptist Church but the whole faith of Islam as a whole. A minuscule proportion of Christians see the Bible in this way. I realise that ISIS isn't a faith but a terror group. But it draws its roots from the Muslim faith and is far more religiously based than the IRA. Everything is done for Allah. And yeah there are loads of Sunnis and Shias fighting ISIS because the group's creating political instability and they're opposed to ISIS as they don't support terrorism. But you've hit the nail on the head! There are heaps of Sunni tribes, Shia tribes. But the fact is that although we shove everything together, there doesn't seem to be a concerted effort to my eyes at least in the Muslim world to speak out against the ideology! Maybe the actions but not the ideology. And people like Jihadi John go to normal mosques in London and become really influenced by radical preachers! Is this just a normal thing in Muslim communities!? Parent: "Beware of the murderous preachers, they're wrong". There's no one major bigdog out there to instruct these guys on moral doctrine or actions, just Imams and radical preachers with their own interpretations of the Koran, which probably contains a whole lot of good, honest stuff (I haven't read it). There is no 'real Islam' because no human can be sure exactly what the true unaltered word of God exactly suggests. Unfortunately, in the case of ISIS, the problem is with the setup of the faith but not, I stress with the majority of its followers. Edited by EaglesEaglesEagles (06 Mar 2015 2.04pm) I think its fairly normal for a minority of youth, particually young, men, to become enamoured with extremist views, there is nothing new in that - The lure of adventure coupled with the righteousness of youth, tends to be the foundation of terrorist and rebel groups cannon fodder across the world. It probably doesn't help that we as a society place such an emphasis on the idea of standing up for what you believe in etc (a nationally shared value that kind of invites trouble). Quite a lot of stories recently have come out of the British Muslim communities about familys reacting to relatives who've gone to fight for IS, along with a conviction today, in which the judge praised the lengths that the family had gone to to prevent someone leaving the UK. Of course in places like Iraq, Syria etc you do have countries and people to whom the idea of cruelty and violence as a means of control are the norm, they grew up with that, as did their parents, under the previous regime. Also, given they're Sunni Iraqi's, the favoured under Saddams Regime, its hardly surprising they've got an issue with the US and UK - as we have been arguably responsible, from their perspective, for their fall from power, reduced circumstances, the deaths of friends and family etc (its worth noting that Kurdish Muslims look quite favourably on the West - because of the opposite). Its important to look into the politics of the middle east, and its history, to see that being an Islamist and being a Muslim are two very different things - Islamists are a political movement of Muslims first and foremost - In very much the same way the PIRA and Sinn Feinn had close ties with the catholic community, but were not strictly speaking a catholic movement, but a movement largely formed from catholics. Interestingly, the origins of Islamic fundermentalism lie not in the Koran, but in the suppression of political dispute and the collapse of the soviet union. Prior to the 80s, most of the radicalized movements active were Paramilitary Left Wing Radical Muslims, such as the PLO and PFLP, as well as national liberation movements. Over time the failure of these to topple, typically western back regimes, resulted in the rise of groups like Islamic Jyhad and Hamas, which stem from peaceful movements, radicalized by the suppression of political dissent in the middle east (ironically Islamic Jyhad were originally a non-violent movement in Egypt. The consequent arrest, execution of its leadership and wholesale torture demonstrated to Islamic Jyhad that peaceful wasn't going to work. These regimes across the middle east are fairly brutal, its unsurprising that they have bred and raised a generation of equally brutal dissenters. Hopefully, the UK and US have learned from their 'experiences' in Iraq, that 'just because someone says they're Taliban, it doesn't meant that they aren't just 'tribal rivals'. Answer me this and I'll respond in full: 1) Why is there such a rise in Muslim fundamentalist youths in Britain? - they get radicalised through worship groups not political oppression and have been brought up here. Look at the number of converts to Islam to be a fundamentalist too. 2) Do you not think the lack of control over what the Koran teaches in terms of the role of Muslim religious leaders has an impact? - You didn't mention this at all, only politics. 3) Why if the Koran isn't central to their beliefs, do these radicals stem everything back to Allah? - I think you're actually patronising and insulting to them and us to group them with any other political insurgent.
I ain't got nuthin' funny to say. Sorry. |
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| palace777 belfast 06 Mar 15 3.52pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Mar 2015 11.35am
Quote silvertop at 06 Mar 2015 11.04am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Mar 2015 11.00am
I heard this morning that ISIS are now destroying ancient art thousands of years old as they capture more land in Iraq. That might be their undoing as people care more about artefacts than human suffering! To the OP though, I agree with others who rightly state that pitting one religion against another is the cause of the world's problems. Why do all you religious zealots insist on thrusting your beliefs on others? I am enlightened enough thank you.
if they need any roads tarmac`d there are a load of pikies in lewisham free!
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