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Cliff Richard
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 The Sash  Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 26 Feb 15 3.12pm |
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Quote Eagle_SA at 26 Feb 2015 3.02pm
I'm no fan of Cliff, I think he's a Christmas merchant of the worst order. However, the fact that the police are making aspects of the investigation public without leting him know does strike me as being an injustice. I wonder how you or I would feel if we were being treated in this way? Injustice ?? Maybe, but the Met have tried to investigate this before and were shut down. I suspect this is a political move by the Met - it cant as an issue and investigation now be shovelled away, squashed or hidden
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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jamiemartin721  Reading 26 Feb 15 3.19pm |
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Quote The Sash at 26 Feb 2015 3.03pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Feb 2015 1.23pm
Quote The Sash at 26 Feb 2015 12.18pm
Quote imbored at 26 Feb 2015 12.05pm
I hadn't heard about this stuff, so it seems there is reason to look into it then. Taking the last two posts into account though, if hiding his homosexuality at a time where coming out was career ending has led to him getting caught up in these allegations it's a pretty sad affair. Time will tell. Edited by imbored (26 Feb 2015 12.05pm)
I don't know about Dolphin Square, but Elm Guest House was definitely popular with gay men as it had a reputation for discretion. It wasn't exclusively a child raping establishment - It catered for groups. Whilst a lot of the modern focus is on the use of the venue by paedophile groups such as the Sparticus group, it does seem that the venue was rented out and used by groups because of its discretion. This made it popular with young gay men as a meeting place. The site is fairly large, and it was a legitimate business (not all of its guests were gay or paedophiles either). More it seems that groups met there. If I recall correctly In terms of Cliff Richard, its alleged his name specifically appeared on the list for the 'parties' involving children. Whether that list is actually true is obviously up for debate and scrutiny but he isn't the only showbiz personality that was on it - a certain cheesy entertainer also appeared, as did serving police officers, Labour, Sinn Fein and Tory politicians The woman who compiled the list, Carole Kasir committed suicide by insulin overdose in the 90's but there is conjecture as to whether she actually did or someone helped her do it as there were surprise, surprise 'inconsistencies' At least 3 or 4 people also on that alleged list have actually been convicted of sex offences against children at Elm House - not one of them you have ever heard of mind.
I don't doubt that abuse was going on there, don't get me wrong, I'm only stating that others used the location due to its discretion and it was popular among gay men as a place to meet, have sex etc (bearing in mind the age of consent for gay males was 21 even when legal - many could be considered engaging in underage sex). That said, the Sparticus Group regularly met there and almost certainly, along with other groups, were abusing children (and they seem to have been aquirred from childrens homes etc specifically for these offences). Hasood Kasir is still alive I think, and unsurprisingly denies any of the charges. Articles on Carole Kasir do record that the place wasn't exclusively catering to paedophiles, and that it was popular with gay men. My initial thought was that cliff Richard was one of these gay men, which would surprise no one. That he may well have been one of the nonses came as a surprise but after Rolf it 'could be anyone' next.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 26 Feb 15 3.29pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Feb 2015 3.19pm
Quote The Sash at 26 Feb 2015 3.03pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Feb 2015 1.23pm
Quote The Sash at 26 Feb 2015 12.18pm
Quote imbored at 26 Feb 2015 12.05pm
I hadn't heard about this stuff, so it seems there is reason to look into it then. Taking the last two posts into account though, if hiding his homosexuality at a time where coming out was career ending has led to him getting caught up in these allegations it's a pretty sad affair. Time will tell. Edited by imbored (26 Feb 2015 12.05pm)
I don't know about Dolphin Square, but Elm Guest House was definitely popular with gay men as it had a reputation for discretion. It wasn't exclusively a child raping establishment - It catered for groups. Whilst a lot of the modern focus is on the use of the venue by paedophile groups such as the Sparticus group, it does seem that the venue was rented out and used by groups because of its discretion. This made it popular with young gay men as a meeting place. The site is fairly large, and it was a legitimate business (not all of its guests were gay or paedophiles either). More it seems that groups met there. If I recall correctly In terms of Cliff Richard, its alleged his name specifically appeared on the list for the 'parties' involving children. Whether that list is actually true is obviously up for debate and scrutiny but he isn't the only showbiz personality that was on it - a certain cheesy entertainer also appeared, as did serving police officers, Labour, Sinn Fein and Tory politicians The woman who compiled the list, Carole Kasir committed suicide by insulin overdose in the 90's but there is conjecture as to whether she actually did or someone helped her do it as there were surprise, surprise 'inconsistencies' At least 3 or 4 people also on that alleged list have actually been convicted of sex offences against children at Elm House - not one of them you have ever heard of mind.
I don't doubt that abuse was going on there, don't get me wrong, I'm only stating that others used the location due to its discretion and it was popular among gay men as a place to meet, have sex etc (bearing in mind the age of consent for gay males was 21 even when legal - many could be considered engaging in underage sex). That said, the Sparticus Group regularly met there and almost certainly, along with other groups, were abusing children (and they seem to have been aquirred from childrens homes etc specifically for these offences). Hasood Kasir is still alive I think, and unsurprisingly denies any of the charges. Articles on Carole Kasir do record that the place wasn't exclusively catering to paedophiles, and that it was popular with gay men. My initial thought was that cliff Richard was one of these gay men, which would surprise no one. That he may well have been one of the nonses came as a surprise but after Rolf it 'could be anyone' next.
The likes of the animal that was Sidney Cooke (also connected) get thrown to the wolves...there are those that actually are protected and untouchable - I am convinced by that, and if it wasn't for people like Tom Watson and his tenacity to get at the truth this whole business wouldn't even be as far as it is now.
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 26 Feb 15 4.12pm |
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Quote The Sash at 26 Feb 2015 3.29pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Feb 2015 3.19pm
Quote The Sash at 26 Feb 2015 3.03pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Feb 2015 1.23pm
Quote The Sash at 26 Feb 2015 12.18pm
Quote imbored at 26 Feb 2015 12.05pm
I hadn't heard about this stuff, so it seems there is reason to look into it then. Taking the last two posts into account though, if hiding his homosexuality at a time where coming out was career ending has led to him getting caught up in these allegations it's a pretty sad affair. Time will tell. Edited by imbored (26 Feb 2015 12.05pm)
I don't know about Dolphin Square, but Elm Guest House was definitely popular with gay men as it had a reputation for discretion. It wasn't exclusively a child raping establishment - It catered for groups. Whilst a lot of the modern focus is on the use of the venue by paedophile groups such as the Sparticus group, it does seem that the venue was rented out and used by groups because of its discretion. This made it popular with young gay men as a meeting place. The site is fairly large, and it was a legitimate business (not all of its guests were gay or paedophiles either). More it seems that groups met there. If I recall correctly In terms of Cliff Richard, its alleged his name specifically appeared on the list for the 'parties' involving children. Whether that list is actually true is obviously up for debate and scrutiny but he isn't the only showbiz personality that was on it - a certain cheesy entertainer also appeared, as did serving police officers, Labour, Sinn Fein and Tory politicians The woman who compiled the list, Carole Kasir committed suicide by insulin overdose in the 90's but there is conjecture as to whether she actually did or someone helped her do it as there were surprise, surprise 'inconsistencies' At least 3 or 4 people also on that alleged list have actually been convicted of sex offences against children at Elm House - not one of them you have ever heard of mind.
I don't doubt that abuse was going on there, don't get me wrong, I'm only stating that others used the location due to its discretion and it was popular among gay men as a place to meet, have sex etc (bearing in mind the age of consent for gay males was 21 even when legal - many could be considered engaging in underage sex). That said, the Sparticus Group regularly met there and almost certainly, along with other groups, were abusing children (and they seem to have been aquirred from childrens homes etc specifically for these offences). Hasood Kasir is still alive I think, and unsurprisingly denies any of the charges. Articles on Carole Kasir do record that the place wasn't exclusively catering to paedophiles, and that it was popular with gay men. My initial thought was that cliff Richard was one of these gay men, which would surprise no one. That he may well have been one of the nonses came as a surprise but after Rolf it 'could be anyone' next.
The likes of the animal that was Sidney Cooke (also connected) get thrown to the wolves...there are those that actually are protected and untouchable - I am convinced by that, and if it wasn't for people like Tom Watson and his tenacity to get at the truth this whole business wouldn't even be as far as it is now. Agree, Sidney Cooke was a bit later, in the 80s, when the whole child abuse horror was coming to the fore. I think its almost a certainity that abuse was largely overlooked and ignored, and in cases covered up. I also think its a culture of the times, that as long as they weren't killing kids, and they were generally kids that didn't really matter, they could get away with it (or were protected). The likes of Savile wouldn't have gotten away with it if they were abusing the children of the rich, famous or elite. When its the kids of the working class, the poor and those in care, especially, it seems no one is too worried. I suspect the level of abuse in society was quite high back then and that most people were left to get on with it, told to keep quiet and generally ignored etc. The continuation of this 'code of silence' rather than coming clean, only corrupts further. Most of the guilty are probably dead, or close to it.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 27 Feb 15 8.13am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Feb 2015 4.12pm
Quote The Sash at 26 Feb 2015 3.29pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Feb 2015 3.19pm
Quote The Sash at 26 Feb 2015 3.03pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Feb 2015 1.23pm
Quote The Sash at 26 Feb 2015 12.18pm
Quote imbored at 26 Feb 2015 12.05pm
I hadn't heard about this stuff, so it seems there is reason to look into it then. Taking the last two posts into account though, if hiding his homosexuality at a time where coming out was career ending has led to him getting caught up in these allegations it's a pretty sad affair. Time will tell. Edited by imbored (26 Feb 2015 12.05pm)
I don't know about Dolphin Square, but Elm Guest House was definitely popular with gay men as it had a reputation for discretion. It wasn't exclusively a child raping establishment - It catered for groups. Whilst a lot of the modern focus is on the use of the venue by paedophile groups such as the Sparticus group, it does seem that the venue was rented out and used by groups because of its discretion. This made it popular with young gay men as a meeting place. The site is fairly large, and it was a legitimate business (not all of its guests were gay or paedophiles either). More it seems that groups met there. If I recall correctly In terms of Cliff Richard, its alleged his name specifically appeared on the list for the 'parties' involving children. Whether that list is actually true is obviously up for debate and scrutiny but he isn't the only showbiz personality that was on it - a certain cheesy entertainer also appeared, as did serving police officers, Labour, Sinn Fein and Tory politicians The woman who compiled the list, Carole Kasir committed suicide by insulin overdose in the 90's but there is conjecture as to whether she actually did or someone helped her do it as there were surprise, surprise 'inconsistencies' At least 3 or 4 people also on that alleged list have actually been convicted of sex offences against children at Elm House - not one of them you have ever heard of mind.
I don't doubt that abuse was going on there, don't get me wrong, I'm only stating that others used the location due to its discretion and it was popular among gay men as a place to meet, have sex etc (bearing in mind the age of consent for gay males was 21 even when legal - many could be considered engaging in underage sex). That said, the Sparticus Group regularly met there and almost certainly, along with other groups, were abusing children (and they seem to have been aquirred from childrens homes etc specifically for these offences). Hasood Kasir is still alive I think, and unsurprisingly denies any of the charges. Articles on Carole Kasir do record that the place wasn't exclusively catering to paedophiles, and that it was popular with gay men. My initial thought was that cliff Richard was one of these gay men, which would surprise no one. That he may well have been one of the nonses came as a surprise but after Rolf it 'could be anyone' next.
The likes of the animal that was Sidney Cooke (also connected) get thrown to the wolves...there are those that actually are protected and untouchable - I am convinced by that, and if it wasn't for people like Tom Watson and his tenacity to get at the truth this whole business wouldn't even be as far as it is now. Agree, Sidney Cooke was a bit later, in the 80s, when the whole child abuse horror was coming to the fore. I think its almost a certainity that abuse was largely overlooked and ignored, and in cases covered up. I also think its a culture of the times, that as long as they weren't killing kids, and they were generally kids that didn't really matter, they could get away with it (or were protected). The likes of Savile wouldn't have gotten away with it if they were abusing the children of the rich, famous or elite. When its the kids of the working class, the poor and those in care, especially, it seems no one is too worried. I suspect the level of abuse in society was quite high back then and that most people were left to get on with it, told to keep quiet and generally ignored etc. The continuation of this 'code of silence' rather than coming clean, only corrupts further. Most of the guilty are probably dead, or close to it.
Full investigations, full prosecutions where they are warranted. Cynically and realistically though the cloak of 'establishment' will fold itself over those involved, a few bones will be thrown and they will hope it will all go away. The abuse of children, physical or sexual is a real 'high horse thang' for me and the thing in this world that makes me most angry (and I am not exactly a ray of sunshine at the best of times)...I could quite happily hang every single perpetrator involved and sleep very soundly.
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Feb 15 9.03am |
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This is going to sound a bit weird, but I can understand why pedophiles abuse children, and whilst I wouldn't generally want them in society, I don't really think most of them can really help themselves and some suffer as a result, or are acting out their own abuse. That I can forgive. What disgusts me more is the enabling of it by people who aren't sex offenders. Those who talk people out of complaints for the 'good of the hospital', reject the reports because they're from 'bad girls or boys' or just 'joked it off, or accepted it as 'just Jimmy' etc - Those who knew what they were doing was criminal, wrong and still did nothing about it. Those are the ones I really want to hang.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 27 Feb 15 9.14am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Feb 2015 9.03am
This is going to sound a bit weird, but I can understand why pedophiles abuse children, and whilst I wouldn't generally want them in society, I don't really think most of them can really help themselves and some suffer as a result, or are acting out their own abuse. That I can forgive. What disgusts me more is the enabling of it by people who aren't sex offenders. Those who talk people out of complaints for the 'good of the hospital', reject the reports because they're from 'bad girls or boys' or just 'joked it off, or accepted it as 'just Jimmy' etc - Those who knew what they were doing was criminal, wrong and still did nothing about it. Those are the ones I really want to hang. Perps / enablers - makes no difference to me and their excuses or rationales don't make a bit of difference, my anger is slightly quantified but not by much. I feel extremely sad for the child who is abused, not for the adult they become if they then use that to inflict the same on others. Yep I get how f***ed up that could make you but not every abused child becomes and abuser in adulthood Must admit I have more than a passing interest in this as an issue, not this case but abuse in general, after finding something out about someone close to me I grew up with a few years ago. Lets just say - If someone wasn't already dead then they would be now.
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Feb 15 9.49am |
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Quote The Sash at 27 Feb 2015 9.14am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Feb 2015 9.03am
This is going to sound a bit weird, but I can understand why pedophiles abuse children, and whilst I wouldn't generally want them in society, I don't really think most of them can really help themselves and some suffer as a result, or are acting out their own abuse. That I can forgive. What disgusts me more is the enabling of it by people who aren't sex offenders. Those who talk people out of complaints for the 'good of the hospital', reject the reports because they're from 'bad girls or boys' or just 'joked it off, or accepted it as 'just Jimmy' etc - Those who knew what they were doing was criminal, wrong and still did nothing about it. Those are the ones I really want to hang. Perps / enablers - makes no difference to me and their excuses or rationales don't make a bit of difference, my anger is slightly quantified but not by much. I feel extremely sad for the child who is abused, not for the adult they become if they then use that to inflict the same on others. Yep I get how f***ed up that could make you but not every abused child becomes and abuser in adulthood Must admit I have more than a passing interest in this as an issue, not this case but abuse in general, after finding something out about someone close to me I grew up with a few years ago. Lets just say - If someone wasn't already dead then they would be now.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Its different when its personal.| The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 27 Feb 15 10.34am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Feb 2015 9.49am
Quote The Sash at 27 Feb 2015 9.14am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Feb 2015 9.03am
This is going to sound a bit weird, but I can understand why pedophiles abuse children, and whilst I wouldn't generally want them in society, I don't really think most of them can really help themselves and some suffer as a result, or are acting out their own abuse. That I can forgive. What disgusts me more is the enabling of it by people who aren't sex offenders. Those who talk people out of complaints for the 'good of the hospital', reject the reports because they're from 'bad girls or boys' or just 'joked it off, or accepted it as 'just Jimmy' etc - Those who knew what they were doing was criminal, wrong and still did nothing about it. Those are the ones I really want to hang. Perps / enablers - makes no difference to me and their excuses or rationales don't make a bit of difference, my anger is slightly quantified but not by much. I feel extremely sad for the child who is abused, not for the adult they become if they then use that to inflict the same on others. Yep I get how f***ed up that could make you but not every abused child becomes and abuser in adulthood Must admit I have more than a passing interest in this as an issue, not this case but abuse in general, after finding something out about someone close to me I grew up with a few years ago. Lets just say - If someone wasn't already dead then they would be now.
(Adopts gravelly Hollywood voiceover) Peados 2 - This time its personal
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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Kermit8  Hevon 27 Feb 15 11.07am |
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Remember this and the media outcry at the time? 'No Child of Mine' 1997 Harrowing true story. The girl in question wanted to remain anonymous but helped the director tell her story. The abusive adults are worryingly 'normal' on the surface.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Feb 15 1.11pm |
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Noel Edmonds, they're getting closer....
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| Part Time James 27 Feb 15 1.12pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Feb 2015 1.11pm
Noel Edmonds, they're getting closer....
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