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Jordan (the country)
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 Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 04 Feb 15 2.53pm |
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Quote Stuk at 04 Feb 2015 2.51pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 04 Feb 2015 2.21pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Feb 2015 2.18pm
Bit curious what did people think would happen to 'forces' aligned against IS that fell into IS hands. They've been killing, beheading, torturing etc Kurds and Iraqi troops for some time. The state isn't really surprised or outraged that someone they sent to kill the enemy, has been killed by that enemy. They're just placating the braying crowds, and echoing the kind of justification and language used by IS. Our allies in the region, aren't really all that much different than IS
Do fighter pilots carry a gun?
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elgrande  bedford 04 Feb 15 2.53pm |
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Quote serial thriller at 04 Feb 2015 1.43pm
Other thing to say is that ISIS are an incredibly disparate organisation, so bombing them out of existence just isn't an option. They have managed to mobilise supporters in parts of the Western world, as well as in Northern and Western Iraq and Eastern Syria. Despite calling themselves a 'state' they are nothing of the kind; they are an ideological collective desiring global adherence to their interpretation of Islam. To be an ideological rather than a national group means that they will always be transnational, gaining support wherever other radical elements of Islam reside. If you view them in purely religious terms though, it's easy to justify belligerent measures, because you can 'other' them as some sort of brainwashed sub-human nutters. Actually, like any group, they are influenced by the wider political and economic landscape they find themselves in, one where we, as Jamie said, have bombed them to sh*t, then armed them to fight Assad, then bombed them some more. The areas they are thriving in are in such extreme poverty and destitution that a group of intellectual radicals can seem very appealing, especially if their rhetoric is absolutely anti-Western. What we really should be doing is building bridges in the surrounding areas to prevent the spread, arming local groups combatting IS (like the Rojava area of Syria I linked in the other thread) and combatting the anti-Islamic rhetoric in the West which is turning many disillusioned young Muslim blokes to sympathise with them. But of course we're not doing that, we're instead looking short term and assume bombing the sh*t out of an area we've bombed the sh*t out of several times in the last few decades will solve the problem. Edited by serial thriller (04 Feb 2015 1.44pm)
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Feb 15 3.15pm |
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Quote elgrande at 04 Feb 2015 2.53pm
Quote serial thriller at 04 Feb 2015 1.43pm
Other thing to say is that ISIS are an incredibly disparate organisation, so bombing them out of existence just isn't an option. They have managed to mobilise supporters in parts of the Western world, as well as in Northern and Western Iraq and Eastern Syria. Despite calling themselves a 'state' they are nothing of the kind; they are an ideological collective desiring global adherence to their interpretation of Islam. To be an ideological rather than a national group means that they will always be transnational, gaining support wherever other radical elements of Islam reside. If you view them in purely religious terms though, it's easy to justify belligerent measures, because you can 'other' them as some sort of brainwashed sub-human nutters. Actually, like any group, they are influenced by the wider political and economic landscape they find themselves in, one where we, as Jamie said, have bombed them to sh*t, then armed them to fight Assad, then bombed them some more. The areas they are thriving in are in such extreme poverty and destitution that a group of intellectual radicals can seem very appealing, especially if their rhetoric is absolutely anti-Western. What we really should be doing is building bridges in the surrounding areas to prevent the spread, arming local groups combatting IS (like the Rojava area of Syria I linked in the other thread) and combatting the anti-Islamic rhetoric in the West which is turning many disillusioned young Muslim blokes to sympathise with them. But of course we're not doing that, we're instead looking short term and assume bombing the sh*t out of an area we've bombed the sh*t out of several times in the last few decades will solve the problem. Edited by serial thriller (04 Feb 2015 1.44pm)
They're easy with that, its Apostasy generally. IS has killed a lot of Muslims.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Ouzo Dan  Behind you 04 Feb 15 3.28pm |
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The only way we will see the stain of ISIL removed from this world is a war similar to the Sri Lankan civil war & the near eradication of the Tamil people. We need to eradicate the funding (something our government wont do) Edited by Ouzo Dan (04 Feb 2015 3.31pm)
The mountains are calling & I must go. |
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Percy of Peckham  Eton Mess 04 Feb 15 3.39pm |
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Quote Kermit8 at 04 Feb 2015 12.38pm
Quote Andy_G at 04 Feb 2015 12.18pm
It certainly made everyone stand up and take notice. No one has really ever met IS with such a swift and dramatic fight fire with fire solution. Bombing runs are all very well but executing people gets right to the heart of it so may be IS will think twice. I doubt it will but fair play to Jordan.
Any excuse for a party then?!!! Perhaps we should stop giving these morons the amount of media coverage they get and roll out the napalm? There are plenty of nasty things we could deploy to keep them amused and perhaps we could also film them dealing with them. It's not about sinking to their level but making them think twice. Deterrent!!!!
Denial is not just a river in Egypt! |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Feb 15 4.11pm |
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Quote Ouzo Dan at 04 Feb 2015 3.28pm
The only way we will see the stain of ISIL removed from this world is a war similar to the Sri Lankan civil war & the near eradication of the Tamil people. We need to eradicate the funding (something our government wont do) Edited by Ouzo Dan (04 Feb 2015 3.31pm) Which is what started the problems in Sri Lanka in the first place. The 'demands' for an independent Tamil state weren't entirely unreasonable. Especially given the fact they'd been made stateless from 1948 to 2003 - The rise of the LTTE was entirely justified by the actions of the Sinhala majority. The level of oppression and suppression of the Tamil minority really created an environment when groups like LTTE were the only viable means of liberation (similar to the PKK in Turkey). The policy of the Sinhala majority post independence essentially created a situation in which the only means of change was to adopt an armed and violent struggle. 80-100,000 people died, when the more pragmatic and effective solution would have been a separate Tamil state, but that would have removed the Salhala's 'cheap slave' labour
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Feb 15 4.18pm |
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Quote Percy of Peckham at 04 Feb 2015 3.39pm
Quote Kermit8 at 04 Feb 2015 12.38pm
Quote Andy_G at 04 Feb 2015 12.18pm
It certainly made everyone stand up and take notice. No one has really ever met IS with such a swift and dramatic fight fire with fire solution. Bombing runs are all very well but executing people gets right to the heart of it so may be IS will think twice. I doubt it will but fair play to Jordan.
Any excuse for a party then?!!! Perhaps we should stop giving these morons the amount of media coverage they get and roll out the napalm? There are plenty of nasty things we could deploy to keep them amused and perhaps we could also film them dealing with them. It's not about sinking to their level but making them think twice. Deterrent!!!! Someone who seeks martyrdom isn't afraid to die. But 45-60 years in a prison regime, as a category A prisoner, is another matter. Even with your human rights, its a s**ty existence. That's where prisons like Gitmo bay get it wrong. If you're torturing people and treating them like animals, it reinforces their faith and anger. You might get information, but you'll never break them. But treat them generally ok, with three meals, an hour or two a day socialization / exercise and a continued banality that could be the next 60 years, and they'll break.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Feb 15 4.20pm |
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Quote Percy of Peckham at 04 Feb 2015 3.39pm
Quote Kermit8 at 04 Feb 2015 12.38pm
Quote Andy_G at 04 Feb 2015 12.18pm
It certainly made everyone stand up and take notice. No one has really ever met IS with such a swift and dramatic fight fire with fire solution. Bombing runs are all very well but executing people gets right to the heart of it so may be IS will think twice. I doubt it will but fair play to Jordan.
Any excuse for a party then?!!! Perhaps we should stop giving these morons the amount of media coverage they get and roll out the napalm? There are plenty of nasty things we could deploy to keep them amused and perhaps we could also film them dealing with them. It's not about sinking to their level but making them think twice. Deterrent!!!! Deterrent doesn't generally work, unless your prepared to go overkill, and even that won't work with those who've already 'committed' themselves to the cause. But part of the appeal of Islamism is the 'martyrdom' and heroism angle. No one ever knowing that you died for Allah, that's more of a deterrent than a grizzly death.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Sir James Hird  Mount Martha 04 Feb 15 6.51pm |
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The policy of trying to remove ISIS by the means of conventional war will not work.
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| rob1969 Banstead Surrey 04 Feb 15 7.37pm |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 04 Feb 2015 2.53pm
Quote Stuk at 04 Feb 2015 2.51pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 04 Feb 2015 2.21pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Feb 2015 2.18pm
Bit curious what did people think would happen to 'forces' aligned against IS that fell into IS hands. They've been killing, beheading, torturing etc Kurds and Iraqi troops for some time. The state isn't really surprised or outraged that someone they sent to kill the enemy, has been killed by that enemy. They're just placating the braying crowds, and echoing the kind of justification and language used by IS. Our allies in the region, aren't really all that much different than IS
Do fighter pilots carry a gun?
Think a suicide capsule should be carried for last resort when flying against Isis.
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| cornwalls palace Torpoint 04 Feb 15 7.51pm |
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..should not of let the cat out! sooner or later we are all doomed I'm afraid, it's like the black death..only much much worse, sorry folks.
.......has our coach driver done a Poo'yet, without thinking about Gus! |
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| legaleagle 04 Feb 15 9.26pm |
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Quote elgrande at 04 Feb 2015 2.53pm
Quote serial thriller at 04 Feb 2015 1.43pm
Other thing to say is that ISIS are an incredibly disparate organisation, so bombing them out of existence just isn't an option. They have managed to mobilise supporters in parts of the Western world, as well as in Northern and Western Iraq and Eastern Syria. Despite calling themselves a 'state' they are nothing of the kind; they are an ideological collective desiring global adherence to their interpretation of Islam. To be an ideological rather than a national group means that they will always be transnational, gaining support wherever other radical elements of Islam reside. If you view them in purely religious terms though, it's easy to justify belligerent measures, because you can 'other' them as some sort of brainwashed sub-human nutters. Actually, like any group, they are influenced by the wider political and economic landscape they find themselves in, one where we, as Jamie said, have bombed them to sh*t, then armed them to fight Assad, then bombed them some more. The areas they are thriving in are in such extreme poverty and destitution that a group of intellectual radicals can seem very appealing, especially if their rhetoric is absolutely anti-Western. What we really should be doing is building bridges in the surrounding areas to prevent the spread, arming local groups combatting IS (like the Rojava area of Syria I linked in the other thread) and combatting the anti-Islamic rhetoric in the West which is turning many disillusioned young Muslim blokes to sympathise with them. But of course we're not doing that, we're instead looking short term and assume bombing the sh*t out of an area we've bombed the sh*t out of several times in the last few decades will solve the problem. Edited by serial thriller (04 Feb 2015 1.44pm)
To be more precise re shia muslims, the Saudi Arabian-originating salafist/wahhabi strain of sunni islam (on which ISIS' ideology is at core based), regards shia muslims as not proper muslims because of a schism c 1,400 years ago within Islam over who was the Prophet's true designated "successor" after his death. Also,equally sectarian shia muslims have for some years embarked on killings in Iraq of Sunni muslims. All of which marks the seeming possible end of what was for hundreds of years a relatively religiously pluralistic society,where christians (living in Iraq since ancient times) until recently generally were thought of/thought of themselves as Iraqi to the core since Iraq had been created,and where early Arab nationalists in Iraq had defined Iraqi Jews (who had also existed as a community in Iraq going back to ancient times) as fellow Arabs.
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