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Buzzcock In an underground lair near Bright... 30 Apr 14 1.40am
Lab/Lib love the EU. Tories say they want to renegotiate and will give us a vote next term. Just as they said last manifesto. Lying, self serving dross peddled out year after year by career politicians despite most polls saying a majority want out of the EU completely or a major reclaim of central control. Greens, TUSC, etc you had your chance but the disenchanted void has been filled by UKIP. Until now this majority has had no chance of having it's voice heard. A one trick pony party yes but it's rather an important trick. To people like Nick who wonder why UKIP are doing so well what are the options for these people? For the first time in my lifetime there is at least a chance of breaking up this Lib/Lab/Con status quo. It's anti-establishment, anarchic even. Great. In the woods there grew a tree. And a fine fine tree was he.
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Buzzcock

In an underground lair near Bright... 30 Apr 14 1.40am

Lab/Lib love the EU.
Tories say they want to renegotiate and will give us a vote next term.
Just as they said last manifesto.
Lying, self serving dross peddled out year after year by career politicians despite most polls saying a majority want out of the EU completely or a major reclaim of central control.
Greens, TUSC, etc you had your chance but the disenchanted void has been filled by UKIP.
Until now this majority has had no chance of having it's voice heard.
A one trick pony party yes but it's rather an important trick.
To people like Nick who wonder why UKIP are doing so well what are the options for these people?
For the first time in my lifetime there is at least a chance of breaking up this Lib/Lab/Con status quo. It's anti-establishment, anarchic even. Great.

In the woods there grew a tree. And a fine fine tree was he.

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becky over the moon 30 Apr 14 7.12am
Ah yes! The Greens, who have so successfully displayed their credentials in Brighton...... [Link] A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 30 Apr 14 7.12am

Ah yes! The Greens, who have so successfully displayed their credentials in Brighton......

[Link]

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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matt_himself Matataland 30 Apr 14 8.22am
Quote The White Horse at 30 Apr 2014 12.02am I imagine nickgusset was expecting an argument from the right, not the centre left. Nice to be on the side of the racists and homophobes. Pathetic. Labelling all UKIP supporters as racist and whatever homophobic means these days is lazy and cheap. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 30 Apr 14 8.22am

Quote The White Horse at 30 Apr 2014 12.02am

I imagine nickgusset was expecting an argument from the right, not the centre left. Nice to be on the side of the racists and homophobes.

Pathetic. Labelling all UKIP supporters as racist and whatever homophobic means these days is lazy and cheap.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 30 Apr 14 8.25am
Quote matt_himself at 30 Apr 2014 8.22am Quote The White Horse at 30 Apr 2014 12.02am I imagine nickgusset was expecting an argument from the right, not the centre left. Nice to be on the side of the racists and homophobes. Pathetic. Labelling all UKIP supporters as racist and whatever homophobic means these days is lazy and cheap. I sometimes wonder if you may have autism as you don't seem to get irony or sarcasm.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 30 Apr 14 8.25am

Quote matt_himself at 30 Apr 2014 8.22am

Quote The White Horse at 30 Apr 2014 12.02am

I imagine nickgusset was expecting an argument from the right, not the centre left. Nice to be on the side of the racists and homophobes.

Pathetic. Labelling all UKIP supporters as racist and whatever homophobic means these days is lazy and cheap.

I sometimes wonder if you may have autism as you don't seem to get irony or sarcasm.

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matt_himself Matataland 30 Apr 14 8.34am
Quote nickgusset at 30 Apr 2014 8.25am Quote matt_himself at 30 Apr 2014 8.22am Quote The White Horse at 30 Apr 2014 12.02am I imagine nickgusset was expecting an argument from the right, not the centre left. Nice to be on the side of the racists and homophobes. Pathetic. Labelling all UKIP supporters as racist and whatever homophobic means these days is lazy and cheap. I sometimes wonder if you may have autism as you don't seem to get irony or sarcasm. There is many a true word said in jest. Also, why are you so punchy? I thought you deplored personal remarks on here. Do you have a sympathy period for when your missus is on the blob in order to understand and show solidarity with the female condition? "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 30 Apr 14 8.34am

Quote nickgusset at 30 Apr 2014 8.25am

Quote matt_himself at 30 Apr 2014 8.22am

Quote The White Horse at 30 Apr 2014 12.02am

I imagine nickgusset was expecting an argument from the right, not the centre left. Nice to be on the side of the racists and homophobes.

Pathetic. Labelling all UKIP supporters as racist and whatever homophobic means these days is lazy and cheap.

I sometimes wonder if you may have autism as you don't seem to get irony or sarcasm.

There is many a true word said in jest.

Also, why are you so punchy? I thought you deplored personal remarks on here. Do you have a sympathy period for when your missus is on the blob in order to understand and show solidarity with the female condition?

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 30 Apr 14 8.50am
Quote serial thriller at 30 Apr 2014 12.12am Funny one, UKIP. They're now in such a strong position that even criticising them seems to do them the world of good. To my mind, the reason for their recent surge comes from about three main reasons: Firstly, their ability to harness major media outlets. I don't buy the whole 'the pres sin this country hate Ukip' bollocks. The two major newspapers in this country, the Sun and the Mail, are broadly Eurosceptic, anti-immigration and advocate the sort of reactionary politics UKIp thrives on. The ineptness of the Tories has left a lot of those on the right disillusioned, and thus Ukip's rise has been welcomed. Second their critics have completely misdirected their criticisms. Why the fck are people focusing on the nutjob councillors when they have just spent millions on an advertising campaign which includes a fcking billboard which essentially says 'bloody foreigners, coming here and taking our jobs'!!!! And what about Farage playing this whole 'we're different to the rest' bullsht?! He's an ex-merchant banker FFS. He would look right at home in the current Tory cabinet, and his expense claims, marital status and hypocritical policy stances would verify this. They are just as rotten as the rest. Thirdly though, you have to give credit to Farage, he's a very good tactician. Previous far-right talismen like Griffin and Powell wouldn't have stood a chance in a debate with a current govenrment minister, but he put up a decent account of himself against Clegg, who for all his faults is a decent rhetorician. He also knows the importance of distancing himself from the traditional far-right, despite Ukip's tendency to conflate a minority parasitical immigrant group in to a much larger group, and their questionable social policies such as rejecting gay marriage bearing all of their hallmarks. Gotta say though, I think it's very damaging that we don't at least have a vocal alternative to austerity from the left. The Greens, TUSC and Left Unity would benefit this nation greatly if they were at the very least able to put across the view that cuts, privatisation and policy based on some mythical deficit reduction aren't the only way. Even if you disagree with them, their absence from mainstream discussion is creating a tyrannical stranglehold on economic policy that takes a need for austerity for granted. The fact that this government hasn't even implemented genuine austerity, and that it is a very dodgy, unproven option among many, is covered up on all sides, which is a shame. They're also popular because they're sticking it to all the lefie poofters. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham*
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 30 Apr 14 8.50am

Quote serial thriller at 30 Apr 2014 12.12am

Funny one, UKIP. They're now in such a strong position that even criticising them seems to do them the world of good.

To my mind, the reason for their recent surge comes from about three main reasons:

Firstly, their ability to harness major media outlets. I don't buy the whole 'the pres sin this country hate Ukip' bollocks. The two major newspapers in this country, the Sun and the Mail, are broadly Eurosceptic, anti-immigration and advocate the sort of reactionary politics UKIp thrives on. The ineptness of the Tories has left a lot of those on the right disillusioned, and thus Ukip's rise has been welcomed.

Second their critics have completely misdirected their criticisms. Why the f*ck are people focusing on the nutjob councillors when they have just spent millions on an advertising campaign which includes a f*cking billboard which essentially says 'bloody foreigners, coming here and taking our jobs'!!!! And what about Farage playing this whole 'we're different to the rest' bullsh*t?! He's an ex-merchant banker FFS. He would look right at home in the current Tory cabinet, and his expense claims, marital status and hypocritical policy stances would verify this. They are just as rotten as the rest.

Thirdly though, you have to give credit to Farage, he's a very good tactician. Previous far-right talismen like Griffin and Powell wouldn't have stood a chance in a debate with a current govenrment minister, but he put up a decent account of himself against Clegg, who for all his faults is a decent rhetorician. He also knows the importance of distancing himself from the traditional far-right, despite Ukip's tendency to conflate a minority parasitical immigrant group in to a much larger group, and their questionable social policies such as rejecting gay marriage bearing all of their hallmarks.

Gotta say though, I think it's very damaging that we don't at least have a vocal alternative to austerity from the left. The Greens, TUSC and Left Unity would benefit this nation greatly if they were at the very least able to put across the view that cuts, privatisation and policy based on some mythical deficit reduction aren't the only way. Even if you disagree with them, their absence from mainstream discussion is creating a tyrannical stranglehold on economic policy that takes a need for austerity for granted. The fact that this government hasn't even implemented genuine austerity, and that it is a very dodgy, unproven option among many, is covered up on all sides, which is a shame.

They're also popular because they're sticking it to all the lefie poofters.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Catfish Burgess Hill 30 Apr 14 8.52am
Nature and politics abhors a vacuum. Ukip are simply occupying a vacant space in British politics that everyone knows has been there since the 1960's. It taps into that constituency that is made up by the working class who don't hear their views represented by either the Labour Party or the Tories, (who used to be better at tapping into working class support). Everyone in mainstream politics knows that there are lots of votes to be had from being anti-European, ant-multi culturalism and pro hanging and flogging. The only reason that someone hasn't eaten into mainstream votes is because those promoting such views clearly also had a fascist agenda. Ukip are different, and more dangerous, because they are not perceived to be fascists. Farage is clearly not Nick Griffin and saying that he is will not undermine them. The main attacks on Ukip have essentially been based on the accusation that they are not politically correct - which may be the worst accusation that can be made by the liberal intellegencia but doesnt have the same impact on the average Sun or Daily Mail reader. It is the views of these groups that form the real bedrock of British opinion and not those found around Hampstead dinner tables. Killing Ukip off will entail both Labour and the Tories re-engaging with their working class support - which I am sure will be very disagreeable for both of them. Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial
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Catfish

Burgess Hill 30 Apr 14 8.52am

Nature and politics abhors a vacuum. Ukip are simply occupying a vacant space in British politics that everyone knows has been there since the 1960's. It taps into that constituency that is made up by the working class who don't hear their views represented by either the Labour Party or the Tories, (who used to be better at tapping into working class support).
Everyone in mainstream politics knows that there are lots of votes to be had from being anti-European, ant-multi culturalism and pro hanging and flogging. The only reason that someone hasn't eaten into mainstream votes is because those promoting such views clearly also had a fascist agenda. Ukip are different, and more dangerous, because they are not perceived to be fascists. Farage is clearly not Nick Griffin and saying that he is will not undermine them. The main attacks on Ukip have essentially been based on the accusation that they are not politically correct - which may be the worst accusation that can be made by the liberal intellegencia but doesnt have the same impact on the average Sun or Daily Mail reader. It is the views of these groups that form the real bedrock of British opinion and not those found around Hampstead dinner tables.
Killing Ukip off will entail both Labour and the Tories re-engaging with their working class support - which I am sure will be very disagreeable for both of them.

Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 30 Apr 14 8.55am
Quote matt_himself at 30 Apr 2014 8.34am Quote nickgusset at 30 Apr 2014 8.25am Quote matt_himself at 30 Apr 2014 8.22am Quote The White Horse at 30 Apr 2014 12.02am I imagine nickgusset was expecting an argument from the right, not the centre left. Nice to be on the side of the racists and homophobes. Pathetic. Labelling all UKIP supporters as racist and whatever homophobic means these days is lazy and cheap. I sometimes wonder if you may have autism as you don't seem to get irony or sarcasm. There is many a true word said in jest. Also, why are you so punchy? I thought you deplored personal remarks on here. Do you have a sympathy period for when your missus is on the blob in order to understand and show solidarity with the female condition? It's called empathy, something that those with aspergers sadly lack.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 30 Apr 14 8.55am

Quote matt_himself at 30 Apr 2014 8.34am

Quote nickgusset at 30 Apr 2014 8.25am

Quote matt_himself at 30 Apr 2014 8.22am

Quote The White Horse at 30 Apr 2014 12.02am

I imagine nickgusset was expecting an argument from the right, not the centre left. Nice to be on the side of the racists and homophobes.

Pathetic. Labelling all UKIP supporters as racist and whatever homophobic means these days is lazy and cheap.

I sometimes wonder if you may have autism as you don't seem to get irony or sarcasm.

There is many a true word said in jest.

It's called empathy, something that those with aspergers sadly lack.

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Catfish Burgess Hill 30 Apr 14 9.30am
Quote serial thriller at 30 Apr 2014 12.12am Thirdly though, you have to give credit to Farage, he's a very good tactician. Previous far-right talismen like Griffin and Powell wouldn't have stood a chance in a debate with a current govenrment minister, but he put up a decent account of himself against Clegg, who for all his faults is a decent rhetorician. He also knows the importance of distancing himself from the traditional far-right, despite Ukip's tendency to conflate a minority parasitical immigrant group in to a much larger group, and their questionable social policies such as rejecting gay marriage bearing all of their hallmarks. . Dont backet Powell with Griffin. Powell was a classics sscholar and a formidable performer in the HOuse of Commons - and was a cabinet minister. Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial
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Catfish

Burgess Hill 30 Apr 14 9.30am

Quote serial thriller at 30 Apr 2014 12.12am

Thirdly though, you have to give credit to Farage, he's a very good tactician. Previous far-right talismen like Griffin and Powell wouldn't have stood a chance in a debate with a current govenrment minister, but he put up a decent account of himself against Clegg, who for all his faults is a decent rhetorician. He also knows the importance of distancing himself from the traditional far-right, despite Ukip's tendency to conflate a minority parasitical immigrant group in to a much larger group, and their questionable social policies such as rejecting gay marriage bearing all of their hallmarks.

Dont backet Powell with Griffin. Powell was a classics sscholar and a formidable performer in the HOuse of Commons - and was a cabinet minister.

Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial

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We are goin up! Coulsdon 30 Apr 14 9.45am
People like Farage and don't like any of the other leaders. Big, big factor. The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
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We are goin up!

Coulsdon 30 Apr 14 9.45am

Send a Private Message to We are goin up!

People like Farage and don't like any of the other leaders. Big, big factor.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 30 Apr 14 9.46am
Quote becky at 30 Apr 2014 7.12am Ah yes! The Greens, who have so successfully displayed their credentials in Brighton...... [Link] I'm sure that there must be a joke there about a Brighton Councillor Jason Kitcat! the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 30 Apr 14 9.46am

Quote becky at 30 Apr 2014 7.12am

Ah yes! The Greens, who have so successfully displayed their credentials in Brighton......

[Link]

I'm sure that there must be a joke there about a Brighton Councillor Jason Kitcat!

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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npn Crowborough 30 Apr 14 9.56am
Simple answer to why UKIP are so popular is that the major parties have been ignoring the policies they focus on for years, and dismissing anyone with concerns about immigration or the EU as racists or xenophobes. This is broadly similar to the rise of the Greens - if you had environmental concerns, you were a beardy hippy, now all the parties take those issues seriously (or at least pay them lip service).
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npn

Crowborough 30 Apr 14 9.56am

Simple answer to why UKIP are so popular is that the major parties have been ignoring the policies they focus on for years, and dismissing anyone with concerns about immigration or the EU as racists or xenophobes.

This is broadly similar to the rise of the Greens - if you had environmental concerns, you were a beardy hippy, now all the parties take those issues seriously (or at least pay them lip service).

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