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Kermit8 Hevon 27 Jun 16 11.17am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted What a shame there wasn't a bookmaker to to take this bet..... could have made another few bob. Am I on your Ignore list Michael? Perhaps you ought to "defriend" me whilst you're in this childish mood! er...I was 10 when you voted in 1975. If you let yourself be hoodwinked then more fool you. Not quite sure how you were though. Maastricht was 17 years away. Even Thatch voted 'in' back then. Speaking of 10. Grow up you old fool. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 27 Jun 16 11.17am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

What a shame there wasn't a bookmaker to to take this bet..... could have made another few bob.

Am I on your Ignore list Michael?

Perhaps you ought to "defriend" me whilst you're in this childish mood!

er...I was 10 when you voted in 1975. If you let yourself be hoodwinked then more fool you. Not quite sure how you were though. Maastricht was 17 years away. Even Thatch voted 'in' back then.

Speaking of 10.

Grow up you old fool.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 27 Jun 16 11.21am
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I said people. You're claiming the lie a bit less than the sulkers out there. However, the bus said: 'We send the EU £350mil per week.' 'Let's fund our NHS instead. Vote Leave.' It doesn't say by how much fund the NHS. It was also said during the campaign, as Boris and Farage have said, that there are also other areas that need assistance. Schools etc. There will also be calls from some areas losing EU funding (that is incidentally equally matched by the UK). The £350mil is a gross figure which is under review in 2020. Quite a few of the EU members do not like our rebate and want it scrapped. Edited by Rudi Hedman (27 Jun 2016 10.56am) Scrapping the rebate would only have been possible with our agreement. I don't think the Leave campaign in any way monopolised the position of lying in this campaign. Remain lied to create scaremongering scenarios, Leave lied to create fantasy funny money and immigration policies that were never going to come to fruition. I was more disappointed than I expected with the Leave vote, but I was never committed to either side. I don't think it is in the best financial interests of the country but I do believe the EU is a rotten organisation. But BoJo the Clown is backtracking and lying like his life depended on it. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 27 Jun 16 11.21am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I said people. You're claiming the lie a bit less than the sulkers out there. However, the bus said:

'We send the EU £350mil per week.'

'Let's fund our NHS instead. Vote Leave.'

It doesn't say by how much fund the NHS.

It was also said during the campaign, as Boris and Farage have said, that there are also other areas that need assistance. Schools etc. There will also be calls from some areas losing EU funding (that is incidentally equally matched by the UK).

The £350mil is a gross figure which is under review in 2020. Quite a few of the EU members do not like our rebate and want it scrapped.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (27 Jun 2016 10.56am)

Scrapping the rebate would only have been possible with our agreement.

I don't think the Leave campaign in any way monopolised the position of lying in this campaign. Remain lied to create scaremongering scenarios, Leave lied to create fantasy funny money and immigration policies that were never going to come to fruition.

I was more disappointed than I expected with the Leave vote, but I was never committed to either side. I don't think it is in the best financial interests of the country but I do believe the EU is a rotten organisation.

But BoJo the Clown is backtracking and lying like his life depended on it.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 27 Jun 16 11.39am
Originally posted by OknotOK Scrapping the rebate would only have been possible with our agreement. I don't think the Leave campaign in any way monopolised the position of lying in this campaign. Remain lied to create scaremongering scenarios, Leave lied to create fantasy funny money and immigration policies that were never going to come to fruition. I was more disappointed than I expected with the Leave vote, but I was never committed to either side. I don't think it is in the best financial interests of the country but I do believe the EU is a rotten organisation. But BoJo the Clown is backtracking and lying like his life depended on it. I don't know about us needing to agree on scrapping the rebate. Do you have any evidence? Agree on the lying but the losing side have conveniently forgotten. Can't really agree Boris is backtracking. Immigrants are welcome to stay as Brits will be welcome to stay where they are. We don't really know how the movement of people will pan out and visas and migration happened within parameters well before EU membership. Boris has mentioned freedom of movement for British people, possibly because he's referring to Western Europe whose economies rely on us to prevent recession and job losses just as much the other way round. There has been no mention of foreign movement of people/labour, anything. This is his quote, 'EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU. British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.' I think there may end up being free movement of EU labour with a job offer. This could achieve the quality of migration Gove always preferred, and satisfy the London remain vote, and I wouldn't have an issue with it apart from future housing issues, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the young remainers regret it when they spend several years struggling trying to get a job in a professional industry with competition from foreign candidates. But is also open to abuse. Template letters, copied letters, forged letters, agency letters, letters from zero hours employers. There will be so many ways to abuse this it'll be as useful as a sieve. Edited by Rudi Hedman (27 Jun 2016 11.47am) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 27 Jun 16 11.39am

Originally posted by OknotOK

Scrapping the rebate would only have been possible with our agreement.

But BoJo the Clown is backtracking and lying like his life depended on it.

I don't know about us needing to agree on scrapping the rebate. Do you have any evidence?

Agree on the lying but the losing side have conveniently forgotten.

Can't really agree Boris is backtracking. Immigrants are welcome to stay as Brits will be welcome to stay where they are. We don't really know how the movement of people will pan out and visas and migration happened within parameters well before EU membership. Boris has mentioned freedom of movement for British people, possibly because he's referring to Western Europe whose economies rely on us to prevent recession and job losses just as much the other way round. There has been no mention of foreign movement of people/labour, anything. This is his quote,

'EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.

British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.'

I think there may end up being free movement of EU labour with a job offer. This could achieve the quality of migration Gove always preferred, and satisfy the London remain vote, and I wouldn't have an issue with it apart from future housing issues, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the young remainers regret it when they spend several years struggling trying to get a job in a professional industry with competition from foreign candidates.

But is also open to abuse. Template letters, copied letters, forged letters, agency letters, letters from zero hours employers. There will be so many ways to abuse this it'll be as useful as a sieve.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (27 Jun 2016 11.47am)

COYP

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Hoof Hearted 27 Jun 16 11.43am
Originally posted by Kermit8 er...I was 10 when you voted in 1975. If you let yourself be hoodwinked then more fool you. Not quite sure how you were though. Maastricht was 17 years away. Even Thatch voted 'in' back then. Speaking of 10. Grow up you old fool. But you were complaining about people being hoodwinked in this referendum and how unfair it was. I explained how everyone (including me and Thatcher) were hoodwinked into believing the true purpose of the EEC in 1975, but just as you do when arguing with Matt, you blatantly ignore, twist words or meanings etc... anything to deflect from admitting you are wrong. Telling the Country we were joining a small trading group of likeminded northern european countries rather than the beginnings of a political and economic federal union with the whole of Europe and beyond wasn't a little white lie it was blatant misrepresentation. You only replied now because I made you look a bit silly.. be honest you read my response yesterday and chose to ignore it. I may be an old fool, but in the last 6 months you have become a different person. Shame that, you used to amuse us all.
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Hoof Hearted 27 Jun 16 11.43am

Originally posted by Kermit8

er...I was 10 when you voted in 1975. If you let yourself be hoodwinked then more fool you. Not quite sure how you were though. Maastricht was 17 years away. Even Thatch voted 'in' back then.

Speaking of 10.

Grow up you old fool.

But you were complaining about people being hoodwinked in this referendum and how unfair it was.

I explained how everyone (including me and Thatcher) were hoodwinked into believing the true purpose of the EEC in 1975, but just as you do when arguing with Matt, you blatantly ignore, twist words or meanings etc... anything to deflect from admitting you are wrong.

Telling the Country we were joining a small trading group of likeminded northern european countries rather than the beginnings of a political and economic federal union with the whole of Europe and beyond wasn't a little white lie it was blatant misrepresentation.

You only replied now because I made you look a bit silly.. be honest you read my response yesterday and chose to ignore it.

I may be an old fool, but in the last 6 months you have become a different person.

Shame that, you used to amuse us all.

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 27 Jun 16 11.43am
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I don't know about us needing to agree on scrapping the rebate. Do you have any evidence? Agree on the lying but the losing side have conveniently forgotten. Edited by Rudi Hedman (27 Jun 2016 11.41am) On the rebate: [Link] Quote But with the EU leaders required to approve the MFF unanimously, the UK could use its veto to stop the erosion of the rebate. On the lies, it doesn't matter what lies the Remain camp made up, because they lost! So their lies aren't really relevant any more. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 27 Jun 16 11.43am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I don't know about us needing to agree on scrapping the rebate. Do you have any evidence?

Agree on the lying but the losing side have conveniently forgotten.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (27 Jun 2016 11.41am)

On the rebate:
[Link]

Quote
But with the EU leaders required to approve the MFF unanimously, the UK could use its veto to stop the erosion of the rebate.

On the lies, it doesn't matter what lies the Remain camp made up, because they lost! So their lies aren't really relevant any more.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Mapletree Croydon 27 Jun 16 11.52am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted You are stupid if you claim to know you have definitely suffered more setbacks/hardship than anyone on here, let alone me! This is a message board/forum. You can be certain about your own circumstances, but guessing about others - you are no better at that than you are about predicting our financial future. Clueless. a) Learn some economics b) Try me on a willy waving exercise about hardship
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Mapletree

Croydon 27 Jun 16 11.52am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

You are stupid if you claim to know you have definitely suffered more setbacks/hardship than anyone on here, let alone me!

This is a message board/forum.

You can be certain about your own circumstances, but guessing about others - you are no better at that than you are about predicting our financial future.

Clueless.

a) Learn some economics
b) Try me on a willy waving exercise about hardship

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 27 Jun 16 11.53am
Originally posted by OknotOK On the lies, it doesn't matter what lies the Remain camp made up, because they lost! So their lies aren't really relevant any more. It is true that the UK rebate is not set in the EU treaties. It is a settlement, negotiated by Margaret Thatcher in 1984. The rebate reduced the UK contribution to the EU budget from more than 20% of the total in early 1980s to about 12% of the total now. The level of the UK rebate is decided every seven years, as part of the EU's long-term budget, the Multiannual Financial Framework (MFF), which is negotiated by the EU leaders. The long-term budget determines EU spending levels and priorities and it has to be approved unanimously by all 28 EU leaders. Last time, as part of the 2014-2020 budget negotiations, the UK rebate was preserved. It will remain in place in the current form until 2020. When the EU starts to negotiate the next MFF, the rebate will certainly be on the table again. Many other EU countries would like to see it scrapped or reduced. But with the EU leaders required to approve the MFF unanimously, the UK could use its veto to stop the erosion of the rebate. Reality Check verdict: He's right that the rebate is not a permanent feature of EU membership, but the UK has a veto over the process that would scrap or reduce it. Yet again, undemocratic. Although this is to our benefit, what is the point of something being put to a vote regarding one country's interests when that country can veto it anyway? A bit similar to the sulkers view of democracy, which is ironic in the extreme. They claim the referendum was undemocratic when the result was a vote to leave an undemocratic political organisation. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 27 Jun 16 11.53am

Originally posted by OknotOK

On the lies, it doesn't matter what lies the Remain camp made up, because they lost! So their lies aren't really relevant any more.

It is true that the UK rebate is not set in the EU treaties. It is a settlement, negotiated by Margaret Thatcher in 1984. The rebate reduced the UK contribution to the EU budget from more than 20% of the total in early 1980s to about 12% of the total now.
The level of the UK rebate is decided every seven years, as part of the EU's long-term budget, the Multiannual Financial Framework (MFF), which is negotiated by the EU leaders.
The long-term budget determines EU spending levels and priorities and it has to be approved unanimously by all 28 EU leaders.
Last time, as part of the 2014-2020 budget negotiations, the UK rebate was preserved. It will remain in place in the current form until 2020.
When the EU starts to negotiate the next MFF, the rebate will certainly be on the table again. Many other EU countries would like to see it scrapped or reduced.
But with the EU leaders required to approve the MFF unanimously, the UK could use its veto to stop the erosion of the rebate.
Reality Check verdict: He's right that the rebate is not a permanent feature of EU membership, but the UK has a veto over the process that would scrap or reduce it.

Yet again, undemocratic. Although this is to our benefit, what is the point of something being put to a vote regarding one country's interests when that country can veto it anyway?

A bit similar to the sulkers view of democracy, which is ironic in the extreme. They claim the referendum was undemocratic when the result was a vote to leave an undemocratic political organisation.

COYP

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 27 Jun 16 11.58am
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Yet again, undemocratic. Although this is to our benefit, what is the point of something being put to a vote regarding one country's interests when that country can veto it anyway? A bit similar to the sulkers view of democracy, which is ironic in the extreme. They claim the referendum was undemocratic when the result was a vote to leave an undemocratic political organisation. I'm not denying the democractic deficit in the EU (although it is less than is claimed by the Brexit camp). I think the EU is rotten and was genuinely on the fence about in/out (although always suspected I would end up voting remain when faced with the paper in the polling booth). But reductions in the rebate were only going to happen if we agreed to it, rightly or wrongly. So we'd have to have got some pretty spectacular concessions to give it up. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 27 Jun 16 11.58am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Yet again, undemocratic. Although this is to our benefit, what is the point of something being put to a vote regarding one country's interests when that country can veto it anyway?

A bit similar to the sulkers view of democracy, which is ironic in the extreme. They claim the referendum was undemocratic when the result was a vote to leave an undemocratic political organisation.

I'm not denying the democractic deficit in the EU (although it is less than is claimed by the Brexit camp). I think the EU is rotten and was genuinely on the fence about in/out (although always suspected I would end up voting remain when faced with the paper in the polling booth).

But reductions in the rebate were only going to happen if we agreed to it, rightly or wrongly. So we'd have to have got some pretty spectacular concessions to give it up.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Hoof Hearted 27 Jun 16 11.59am
Originally posted by Mapletree a) Learn some economics b) Try me on a willy waving exercise about hardship I studied economics as part of my Chartered Insurance Institute Qualifications back in the 70's. Mostly a load of old bollocks apart from the simple commonsense rules that you wish to ignore. What would be the point of willy waving, either of us could just make up stuff. For a start you've accepted I have Parkinsons, but you have no way of knowing that I have. Likewise, your claims about a 17 year old daughter. Lets leave it that you don't like me or my ilk - I can live with that. Regards.....
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Hoof Hearted 27 Jun 16 11.59am

Originally posted by Mapletree

a) Learn some economics
b) Try me on a willy waving exercise about hardship

I studied economics as part of my Chartered Insurance Institute Qualifications back in the 70's. Mostly a load of old bollocks apart from the simple commonsense rules that you wish to ignore.

What would be the point of willy waving, either of us could just make up stuff.

For a start you've accepted I have Parkinsons, but you have no way of knowing that I have. Likewise, your claims about a 17 year old daughter.

Lets leave it that you don't like me or my ilk - I can live with that.

Regards.....

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Part Time James 27 Jun 16 12.01pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted But you were complaining about people being hoodwinked in this referendum and how unfair it was. I explained how everyone (including me and Thatcher) were hoodwinked into believing the true purpose of the EEC in 1975, but just as you do when arguing with Matt, you blatantly ignore, twist words or meanings etc... anything to deflect from admitting you are wrong. Telling the Country we were joining a small trading group of likeminded northern european countries rather than the beginnings of a political and economic federal union with the whole of Europe and beyond wasn't a little white lie it was blatant misrepresentation. You only replied now because I made you look a bit silly.. be honest you read my response yesterday and chose to ignore it. I may be an old fool, but in the last 6 months you have become a different person. Shame that, you used to amuse us all. I'll be honest, if I knew that Brexit would de-rail an entertaining HOL poster then I'd have had to think a lot harder. I think the Remain literature missed a trick there.
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Part Time James

27 Jun 16 12.01pm

Send a Private Message to Part Time James

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

But you were complaining about people being hoodwinked in this referendum and how unfair it was.

You only replied now because I made you look a bit silly.. be honest you read my response yesterday and chose to ignore it.

I may be an old fool, but in the last 6 months you have become a different person.

Shame that, you used to amuse us all.

I'll be honest, if I knew that Brexit would de-rail an entertaining HOL poster then I'd have had to think a lot harder. I think the Remain literature missed a trick there.

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Part Time James 27 Jun 16 12.02pm
I have a confession. I am only still contributing to this thread (I use the term loosely) because I wondered whether it would get above 300 pages.
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Part Time James

27 Jun 16 12.02pm

I have a confession. I am only still contributing to this thread (I use the term loosely) because I wondered whether it would get above 300 pages.

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Kermit8 Hevon 27 Jun 16 12.02pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted But you were complaining about people being hoodwinked in this referendum and how unfair it was. I explained how everyone (including me and Thatcher) were hoodwinked into believing the true purpose of the EEC in 1975, but just as you do when arguing with Matt, you blatantly ignore, twist words or meanings etc... anything to deflect from admitting you are wrong. Telling the Country we were joining a small trading group of likeminded northern european countries rather than the beginnings of a political and economic federal union with the whole of Europe and beyond wasn't a little white lie it was blatant misrepresentation. You only replied now because I made you look a bit silly.. be honest you read my response yesterday and chose to ignore it. I may be an old fool, but in the last 6 months you have become a different person. Shame that, you used to amuse us all. You are revising history to suit Hoof. You weren't hoodwinked. Even I I know back then people like Benn and the TUC were campaigning loudly against voting 'in' for reasons you hold dear today. You chose to ignore them. Blaming others for your own decisions is not taking the required responsibility. 1975 - you voted for what you now think was the wrong choice. Your judgement is, therefore, suspect. 2016? We will see if you have again or not. btw if you don't like someone responding to your goading don't do it. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 27 Jun 16 12.02pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

But you were complaining about people being hoodwinked in this referendum and how unfair it was.

You only replied now because I made you look a bit silly.. be honest you read my response yesterday and chose to ignore it.

I may be an old fool, but in the last 6 months you have become a different person.

Shame that, you used to amuse us all.

You are revising history to suit Hoof. You weren't hoodwinked. Even I I know back then people like Benn and the TUC were campaigning loudly against voting 'in' for reasons you hold dear today. You chose to ignore them. Blaming others for your own decisions is not taking the required responsibility.

1975 - you voted for what you now think was the wrong choice. Your judgement is, therefore, suspect.

2016? We will see if you have again or not.

btw if you don't like someone responding to your goading don't do it.

Big chest and massive boobs

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