Russia's actions, in attempting to make their way to Kyiv, stopped only by their own substandard equipment and Western assistance, was the ultimate declaration that they had no interest in a buffer (as are their threats to others). On the contrary, if we've have done nothing there would now be no buffer. Currently there is still scope for one. Like it or not, it's in Europe, so effectively on our doorstep, and turning a blind eye is far from the solution some seem to have imagined it to be. It simply emboldens and creates the next staging ground. It's down to Russia not only us to move towards peace. Continuing to push on is not the best message to send the world.

Edited by BlueJay (23 Jun 2022 10.16pm)

Russia have been making rapid progress over the last few days, which is probably why our media has largely gone a bit quiet.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I think when people use sources like Fobes (which is basically Wall Street) and the BBC....both of which described the surrender at the Azov plant in Mariupol as 'evacuations' you have to wonder as to how much real interest there is in objective reporting.

If alternative sources are going to be criticised (and reporters/commentators should always be judged upon how much they care about accuracy), then there should be some concrete basis upon which to criticise a specific source, rather than tired tropes.

When he posts I will link to DPA's summary of the current battlefield situation and it will comes without silly little emotive commentaries and attempts to reduce or heighten based upon having a side.....but rather the objective status.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jun 2022 11.10pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

None of those links worked for me.....I suspect that may be a problem at my end.

If I remember correctly the surrender of the main forces at Azov didn't take weeks and months.

It's a reality that those sites described the events at Mariupol as evacuations over several articles and that they did refer to fighters being 'evacuated'....which was always rubbish. There has never been an issue with describing civilians like that.

Mainstream sites essentially echo whatever the Ukrainians tell them....and add a disclaimer of 'according to'....however they themselves decide on what is reported, how and what isn't reported and my criticism is that it hasn't accurately reflected what's been occurring on the battlefield.

If I'm being accused of being emotive and not reporting reality then be specific....what have I said has happened that hasn't?

I certainly recall you being dismissive and critical of alternative media, however probably not in respect to this war so it's fair enough to discard that observation.

However, you yourself have been very emotionally invested in this war and...well, no actually I won't criticise that because the individual has that right. However, what I do criticise are established outlets that don't produce an objective view of the battlefield...for example, reporting on Russian shelling of civilians but not on Ukrainian shelling of the same....It's quite open when you look for it.

There was a particular piece on an old woman that has been used for Russian propaganda that....anyone who knows what happened there can read the subtext and see it's terribly biased journalism....something they would never have reported upon unless she said the words they wanted....no doubt in fear of her life now. People have been killed on both sides for speaking out on support for either side.

You won't find those biases within the sources I use...because I'm not interested in slanted human interest stories but rather the truth of what's happening in the field. So I try to use sources that reflect that....if there is too much bias I end up discarding them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jun 2022 1.55am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

We will agree to disagree.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Ukraine/Zelenski is asking for more artillery pieces than exist in the entire US military and many more tanks than the UK and Germans have combined. That's fantasy land. The Ukrainians have zero chance of winning this war with Russia and the risk remains of escalation with other nations. All loss of life could have been avoided before this even started and I fear now the Russians have no motivation to stop moving east now that they have invested so many lives. The low end estimate of Ukrainian lives lost now is some 45,000 by the way.

By the way, this is already an unprecedented windfall for the military industrial complex who are already lining up to "modernise" (replace the old crap all the western nations have given Ukraine).