This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
2020 US Presidential Election. (LOCKED)
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
BlueJay  UK 14 Dec 20 5.37pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by W12
This is not going away, if Biden is inaugurated in January then half the electorate know their vote does not matter. The only solution then would be to seek recourse in a more direct way. Sometimes that's the only solution. Isn't the point of an election that almost "half the electorate know their vote does not matter"? In fact you could argue that four years prior 'over half' realised that. Or you could even argue that nobody's vote means an awful lot whoever wins. What is 'recourse in a more direct way' and 'the only solution'? I certainly know what it sounds like, but I'd prefer to ask. Edited by BlueJay (14 Dec 2020 5.38pm)
|
|
 Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| W12 14 Dec 20 5.39pm | |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Are you serious? All votes matter in a democracy. Unless you actually believe that there was fraud those that were in the minority have to accept the result and then find legal, peaceful ways of continuing to make their case. Or do you not believe in democracy? No I don't at all. How can you have democracy when you cannot vote for who runs the news media, Hollywood, the university's and schools, the police and judiciary, corporations and NGO's, social media etc. Because that's where the actual power sits.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| W12 14 Dec 20 5.40pm | |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by BlueJay
Isn't the point of an election that almost "half the electorate know their vote does not matter"? In fact you could argue that four years prior 'over half' realised that. Or you could even argue that nobody's vote means an awful lot whoever wins. What is 'recourse in a more direct way' and 'the only solution'? I certainly know what it sounds like, but I'd prefer to ask. Edited by BlueJay (14 Dec 2020 5.38pm) Begone with your Nazi gas-lighting bollox quisling.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| BlueJay UK 14 Dec 20 6.06pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by W12
Begone with your Nazi gas-lighting bollox quisling.
No-one is gaslighting. If you're going to say - while emotional - "The only solution then would be to seek recourse in a more direct way. Sometimes that's the only solution" then reply to a post asking you what you mean by inferring that your own post could be perceived to be aligned with out of bounds acts or groups that's all on you. I don't much care either way to be perfectly honest.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
 Stirlingsays  14 Dec 20 6.07pm |
   |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by W12
No I don't at all. How can you have democracy when you cannot vote for who runs the news media, Hollywood, the university's and schools, the police and judiciary, corporations and NGO's, social media etc. Because that's where the actual power sits. True, whoever wins an election doesn't get to shift that lot....mostly leftist institutional blocks. The Tories appointed most of them....It was Amber Rudd for example who appointed the disaster that is Cressida Dick the chief commissioner of the Met Police and Khan's lackey.....Amber Rudd celebrated and promoted her. Betrayal. The Tories have been appointing leftists to lead institutions for decades now....it's no accident. The real Tories died in the nineties. Lawrence Fox isn't what I'd call my man exactly but if he gets his 'reform' party off of the ground I'll be voting for that. I've rather vote for a conservative party that actually tried to protect and conserve the traditional British way of life rather than the modern day conservatives....a party of feminists and careerists who sold out to the social left with Cameron. All they care about now is keeping their house prices up.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
 |
| Badger11 Beckenham 14 Dec 20 6.07pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Or do you not believe in democracy? Blimey you weren't singing this song after the referendum. welcome to the club, respect the vote.
One more point |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 14 Dec 20 6.16pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Democracy is responsible for social and neo liberalism. Democracy has, ironically led to a far less free society than before. When people talk about 'democracy' it isn't a set defined system. It changes dependent upon the kind of elites within it. I must admit, I think very little of modern day democracy.....at the moment it makes very little difference who you vote for.....it's left and far left...that's it. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Dec 2020 6.18pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| BlueJay UK 14 Dec 20 6.32pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Democracy is responsible for social and neo liberalism. Democracy has, ironically led to a far less free society than before. When people talk about 'democracy' it isn't a set defined system. It changes dependent upon the kind of elites within it. I must admit, I think very little of modern day democracy. What would your version involve? As in W12 seemed to take issue with the fact that half of the US now doesn't have a say, but that can be said to be true of all elections. Or we could go further still and say it's all a veneer of democracy and any outcome is soon contorted to fit corporate interests. I'm not sure that removing those interests is even possible. The people, often put at loggerheads, have that lack of real power in common, though their attention is intentionally directed elsewhere or towards each other. Realistically Occupy Wallstreet was probably the last meaningful cause and show of 'people power' to get behind in terms of reshaping society, but that was inevitably snuffed out. When it comes down to it, beyond a local level, people consistently appear to have very little say. Do you see many scenarios where that ever changes? Edited by BlueJay (14 Dec 2020 6.33pm)
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 14 Dec 20 6.47pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by BlueJay
What would your version involve? As in W12 seemed to take issue with the fact that half of the US now doesn't have a say, but that can be said to be true of all elections. Or we could go further still and say it's all a veneer of democracy and any outcome is soon contorted to fit corporate interests. I'm not sure that removing those interests is even possible. The people, often put at loggerheads, have that lack of real power in common, though their attention is intentionally directed elsewhere or towards each other. Realistically Occupy Wallstreet was probably the last meaningful cause and show of 'people power' to get behind in terms of reshaping society, but that was inevitably snuffed out. When it comes down to it, beyond a local level, people consistently appear to have very little say. Do you see many scenarios where that ever changes? Edited by BlueJay (14 Dec 2020 6.33pm) It's a good question. I'm not sure at the moment. You are correct that whoever seems to win elections it leaves a lot of people miffed. One aspect I'm quite sure of is that people should be able to live within a system they feel comfortable with.....That would mean more nations or maybe much more independent regions...maybe even nations within nations but ones based upon culture or political ideology or perhaps both.....links would exist militarily and so on....kind of going back to the Greek city state model I suppose. I don't know. But anyway I believe the old single national model no longer works within the paradigm that the elites want....which is a kind of a weird socially neo-liberal corpocracy. Anyway, my musings don't really matter. I see violence in the US because in reality you already have two nations there....and have for a long time. But I think Europe has already died....or changed radically depending upon your point of view. So I don't see giant upheaval here....that point was passed decades ago. Eastern Europe though....that's different. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Dec 2020 6.51pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
PalazioVecchio  south pole 14 Dec 20 8.02pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Eastern Europe though....that's different. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Dec 2020 6.51pm)
Loads of cities all over Western Europe these days.
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| W12 14 Dec 20 8.44pm | |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by BlueJay
I made the point that the entire point of an election is that almost half of the people don't have a say following the result. No-one is gaslighting. If you're going to say - while emotional - "The only solution then would be to seek recourse in a more direct way. Sometimes that's the only solution" then reply to a post asking you what you mean by inferring that your own post could be perceived to be aligned with out of bounds acts or groups that's all on you. I don't much care either way to be perfectly honest. Edited by BlueJay (14 Dec 2020 6.12pm) Violence is the ultimate authority. If you back people into a corner that’s what you are going to get. There is a huge amount of evidence to suggest mass voting fraud especially in the most important states. Trumps base can see this and also see that the entire media machine and even the neo-cons in their own party are willing to look the other way. At the same time there is equally clear evidence of the Bidens taking money from Ukraine but especially China and then there is the hard drive from hell (which Barr knew about and suppressed) . Add to this 4 years of the democrats bringing completely unfounded allegations of “Russian colllusion”, the nothing burger impeachment, the disgusting treatments of Flynn and others, Jussie Smollett, the kid demonised in the MAGA hat. This list is endless. That’s not me advocating for violence which I think is what you are suggesting. You create the conditions for violence and that’s what you get.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 14 Dec 20 8.54pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio
Loads of cities all over Western Europe these days. Yep, the elites stopped caring around about the time wealth went digital and globalism became the default. Once the connection with the land goes, so goes nationalism......once nationalism goes so the nation becomes something to trade or rent....selling the family silver was something I remember Macmillan saying. It's one of the reasons that Brexit was such a shock to them. They hate that those they regard as ignorant chavs don't like their vision of the world. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Dec 2020 8.59pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
Login / RegisterNew users
Registration is now on our new message board
Existing users
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
Sponsors
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.