General Election 2017

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General Election 2017

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 02 Jun 17 12.25pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 So if Corbyn shares all these characteristics of affability and friendliness with Hitler and Stalin, does that mean, beneath the bonhomie, he too is a psychopathic dictator? Can we expect him, if he wins on 6th June, to invade Poland on 9th June or launch a genocidal purge of moderately well off agriculturalists? This is rather getting off topic now. The original point was that May would be a poor person to send to the negotiating table as she has a very off-putting and cold personality and never comes across as likeable or affable. A point was then made saying Hitler and Stalin were quite cold and off-putting, but I was saying that this was contrary to accounts of what those two horrific individuals were like when negotiating.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 02 Jun 17 12.25pm

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Originally posted by hedgehog50

So if Corbyn shares all these characteristics of affability and friendliness with Hitler and Stalin, does that mean, beneath the bonhomie, he too is a psychopathic dictator? Can we expect him, if he wins on 6th June, to invade Poland on 9th June or launch a genocidal purge of moderately well off agriculturalists?

This is rather getting off topic now. The original point was that May would be a poor person to send to the negotiating table as she has a very off-putting and cold personality and never comes across as likeable or affable. A point was then made saying Hitler and Stalin were quite cold and off-putting, but I was saying that this was contrary to accounts of what those two horrific individuals were like when negotiating.

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 02 Jun 17 12.27pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger According to most of you lot on the left, they were fascists and racists, as I recall. You can spin as you please but the fact is that the Labour party has been invaded by the far left, many of whom came fro the Communist party. The reason is simple, Comrade Corbyn is as close to their ideology as any Labour leader is going to get. They were backed by Britain First. [Link]
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 02 Jun 17 12.27pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

According to most of you lot on the left, they were fascists and racists, as I recall.

You can spin as you please but the fact is that the Labour party has been invaded by the far left, many of whom came fro the Communist party. The reason is simple, Comrade Corbyn is as close to their ideology as any Labour leader is going to get.

They were backed by Britain First.

[Link]

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Mapletree Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.28pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Well a lot of its infrastructure building costs were offset by the Marshall plan....which was your hated America giving it money. Having to look for successful socialism from around the world and having to look seventy years ago to a one term government says quite a lot. As Thatcher said, socialism runs out of other people's money.....As soon as a socialist government gets elected all the high earners...of which a lot of investment comes...they leave or find different ways of hiding their cash. Tax takes always seem to be higher when you don't have socialism. Though something different is happening within nordic countries. I wouldn't be adverse to finding out why the cultural attitudes towards high taxation happens there....and what investment is like. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Jun 2017 11.23am) Just to point out we were never 'given' money under the Marshall Plan. It was a loan subject to 50 annual repayments.
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Mapletree

Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.28pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well a lot of its infrastructure building costs were offset by the Marshall plan....which was your hated America giving it money.

Having to look for successful socialism from around the world and having to look seventy years ago to a one term government says quite a lot.

As Thatcher said, socialism runs out of other people's money.....As soon as a socialist government gets elected all the high earners...of which a lot of investment comes...they leave or find different ways of hiding their cash.

Tax takes always seem to be higher when you don't have socialism.

Though something different is happening within nordic countries. I wouldn't be adverse to finding out why the cultural attitudes towards high taxation happens there....and what investment is like.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Jun 2017 11.23am)

Just to point out we were never 'given' money under the Marshall Plan. It was a loan subject to 50 annual repayments.

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 02 Jun 17 12.39pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle They were backed by Britain First. [Link] You say that like it's a bad thing. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 02 Jun 17 12.39pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

They were backed by Britain First.

[Link]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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steeleye20 Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.53pm
The mental and physical health of the next PM is most important IMO and I don't think there is any check. A good dictator must eat his/her vegetables.
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steeleye20

Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.53pm

The mental and physical health of the next PM is most important IMO and I don't think there is any check.

A good dictator must eat his/her vegetables.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.56pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle They were backed by Britain First. [Link] The point is Corbyn's Labour leadership is closer to communism than the Tories' is to fascism. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.56pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

They were backed by Britain First.

[Link]

The point is Corbyn's Labour leadership is closer to communism than the Tories' is to fascism.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 02 Jun 17 1.01pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 The point is Corbyn's Labour leadership is closer to communism than the Tories' is to fascism. Show me the Labour plans for five year plans, farm collectivisation, "re-education" centres, suppression of all religion, a state press with elimination of private media ownership, mass murder of the land-owning class and institutionalised state surveillance of the populace and perhaps I'll agree with you. Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 02 Jun 17 1.01pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

The point is Corbyn's Labour leadership is closer to communism than the Tories' is to fascism.

Show me the Labour plans for five year plans, farm collectivisation, "re-education" centres, suppression of all religion, a state press with elimination of private media ownership, mass murder of the land-owning class and institutionalised state surveillance of the populace and perhaps I'll agree with you.

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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NickinOX Sailing country. 02 Jun 17 1.02pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle German historian's I've read say differently. Hindenburg certainly wasn't a big fan and definitely not initially but was convinced enough to acquiesce to his every request in the final couple of years of his life, and that has been attributed to Hitler's charm (at least in part) by historians. Hindenburg publicly thanked Hitler for the Night of the Long Knives. Which German historians? Hindenburg was reported to have been so annoyed with Hitler that he could not even look at him when the latter was made Chancellor. Furthermore, Hindenburg was so disturbed by the idea of Hitler being in charge that he re-ran for office, despite hating the job. Try reading Kershaw's magisterial work on Hitler: chapter 10 volume 1 should help. You might also look at Evan's "The Coming of the Third Reich (chpater 5 in volume 1). They make it clear that Hindenburg detested Hitler and was extremely distrustful of him. The feeling was mutual. As for the Night of the Long Knives: most people were more immediately afraid of the SA and its storm-troopers than they were of Hitler. Furthermore, as Kershaw points out, presumably given Hindenburg's state of health (he was shortly to die of ill health), it is not even clear whether Hindenburg was even shown the telegram sent in his name. Edited by NickinOX (02 Jun 2017 1.09pm) If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
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NickinOX

Sailing country. 02 Jun 17 1.02pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

German historian's I've read say differently. Hindenburg certainly wasn't a big fan and definitely not initially but was convinced enough to acquiesce to his every request in the final couple of years of his life, and that has been attributed to Hitler's charm (at least in part) by historians. Hindenburg publicly thanked Hitler for the Night of the Long Knives.

Which German historians? Hindenburg was reported to have been so annoyed with Hitler that he could not even look at him when the latter was made Chancellor.

Furthermore, Hindenburg was so disturbed by the idea of Hitler being in charge that he re-ran for office, despite hating the job.

Try reading Kershaw's magisterial work on Hitler: chapter 10 volume 1 should help. You might also look at Evan's "The Coming of the Third Reich (chpater 5 in volume 1).

They make it clear that Hindenburg detested Hitler and was extremely distrustful of him. The feeling was mutual.

As for the Night of the Long Knives: most people were more immediately afraid of the SA and its storm-troopers than they were of Hitler. Furthermore, as Kershaw points out, presumably given Hindenburg's state of health (he was shortly to die of ill health), it is not even clear whether Hindenburg was even shown the telegram sent in his name.

Edited by NickinOX (02 Jun 2017 1.09pm)

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Hrolf The Ganger 02 Jun 17 1.03pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle They were backed by Britain First. [Link] Why are you so interested in talking about UKIP I wonder. They are not a force in this election. What people need to worry about is putting a man backed by Communists into No 10. This is not the Labour Party of old or 'New'. This is a hard left vehicle to push a backward agenda that will put us back in the political stone age.
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Hrolf The Ganger

02 Jun 17 1.03pm

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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

They were backed by Britain First.

[Link]

Why are you so interested in talking about UKIP I wonder. They are not a force in this election.
What people need to worry about is putting a man backed by Communists into No 10.
This is not the Labour Party of old or 'New'. This is a hard left vehicle to push a backward agenda that will put us back in the political stone age.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 02 Jun 17 1.12pm
Originally posted by Mr_Gristle Show me the Labour plans for five year plans, farm collectivisation, "re-education" centres, suppression of all religion, a state press with elimination of private media ownership, mass murder of the land-owning class and institutionalised state surveillance of the populace and perhaps I'll agree with you. Similarly, show me the Tory (or UKIP for that matter) plans to invade Poland and exterminate all Jews (more a left wing aspiration these days of course). Corbyn's head of campaign, Andrew Murray, who has praised Stalin and North Korea, was member of the Communist Party of Great Britain until December of last year. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 02 Jun 17 1.12pm

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

Similarly, show me the Tory (or UKIP for that matter) plans to invade Poland and exterminate all Jews (more a left wing aspiration these days of course).

Corbyn's head of campaign, Andrew Murray, who has praised Stalin and North Korea, was member of the Communist Party of Great Britain until December of last year.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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malxeagles Wimbledon 02 Jun 17 1.18pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Why are you so interested in talking about UKIP I wonder. They are not a force in this election. What people need to worry about is putting a man backed by Communists into No 10. This is not the Labour Party of old or 'New'. This is a hard left vehicle to push a backward agenda that will put us back in the political stone age. Are you aware of the difference between Communism and Socialism? I may not voting for Corbyn, but am getting tired of this pointless mudslinging against him. Attack his policies if you believe they are wrong, but calling him a Communist serves no purpose other then making him look sensible when he asks, (quite reasonably), to debate policy and step away from name calling. Edited by malxeagles (02 Jun 2017 1.19pm)
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malxeagles

Wimbledon 02 Jun 17 1.18pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Why are you so interested in talking about UKIP I wonder. They are not a force in this election.
What people need to worry about is putting a man backed by Communists into No 10.
This is not the Labour Party of old or 'New'. This is a hard left vehicle to push a backward agenda that will put us back in the political stone age.

Are you aware of the difference between Communism and Socialism? I may not voting for Corbyn, but am getting tired of this pointless mudslinging against him. Attack his policies if you believe they are wrong, but calling him a Communist serves no purpose other then making him look sensible when he asks, (quite reasonably), to debate policy and step away from name calling.

Edited by malxeagles (02 Jun 2017 1.19pm)

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 02 Jun 17 1.22pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Why are you so interested in talking about UKIP I wonder. They are not a force in this election. What people need to worry about is putting a man backed by Communists into No 10. This is not the Labour Party of old or 'New'. This is a hard left vehicle to push a backward agenda that will put us back in the political stone age. I could not agree more. And don't get me started on the so called "Costed" manifesto pledges with the "Money Tree" at the forefront.That "Corporation tax" increase has been spent over and over and over again - and will be again before next Thursday ! And don't get me started on that 'Socialist Campaign Group News', the 'London Labour briefing' and all that left-wing hogwash. I think I will leave it at this else I will be a victim of hypertension and I will get on my political 'Soapbox' besides I have leaflets to deliver on behalf of my party.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 02 Jun 17 1.22pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Why are you so interested in talking about UKIP I wonder. They are not a force in this election.
What people need to worry about is putting a man backed by Communists into No 10.
This is not the Labour Party of old or 'New'. This is a hard left vehicle to push a backward agenda that will put us back in the political stone age.

I could not agree more.

And don't get me started on the so called "Costed" manifesto pledges with the "Money Tree" at the forefront.That "Corporation tax" increase has been spent over and over and over again - and will be again before next Thursday !

And don't get me started on that 'Socialist Campaign Group News', the 'London Labour briefing' and all that left-wing hogwash.

I think I will leave it at this else I will be a victim of hypertension and I will get on my political 'Soapbox' besides I have leaflets to deliver on behalf of my party.

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