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Rudi Hedman Caterham 26 Jun 16 10.59am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted You keep making up other reasons, but at some point it will dawn on you why what I've said is actually so. Basic rule of economics..... Excessive demand causes prices to rise. London house prices are rising higher than the rest of the country because more immigrants are drawn there like a fcuking magnet. Reductionism doesn't cut it with you because you are stupid. Ever since you arrived on here you've been having a go at "me and my sort" as you put it, like we're some lucky recipients of life's golden ticket. I think the aim is for you and us for leave to give up. The more they deny or appear 'inelastic' in their ability to recognise basic concepts, the more they frustrate us and get their way. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 26 Jun 16 10.59am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

You keep making up other reasons, but at some point it will dawn on you why what I've said is actually so.

Basic rule of economics..... Excessive demand causes prices to rise.

London house prices are rising higher than the rest of the country because more immigrants are drawn there like a fcuking magnet.

Reductionism doesn't cut it with you because you are stupid. Ever since you arrived on here you've been having a go at "me and my sort" as you put it, like we're some lucky recipients of life's golden ticket.

I think the aim is for you and us for leave to give up. The more they deny or appear 'inelastic' in their ability to recognise basic concepts, the more they frustrate us and get their way.

COYP

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Hoof Hearted 26 Jun 16 10.59am
Originally posted by nickgusset Yes some saw through the 350 million lie but many many didn't and feel duped. I note you didn't comment on the UKIP mep's comment about free movement of Labour. I apologise for my comments yesterday. Was below the belt. Pensions are a bit stuffed ain't they with the fall in share prices. .... and so you should.... WAY below the belt!
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Hoof Hearted 26 Jun 16 10.59am

Originally posted by nickgusset

Yes some saw through the 350 million lie but many many didn't and feel duped.

I note you didn't comment on the UKIP mep's comment about free movement of Labour.

I apologise for my comments yesterday. Was below the belt.

Pensions are a bit stuffed ain't they with the fall in share prices.

.... and so you should.... WAY below the belt!

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Leicestershireeagle South Leicestershire 26 Jun 16 11.00am
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I get your point on social disillusion. It'll blow over when people have more things to think about in their lives than they have this weekend and after a holiday. I raised the poor turn out from younger voters to Mapletree's daughter on Friday night after she blamed us. She agreed. And what if there wasn't a 48 hour extension to registering to vote? The winning margin for leave would've been wider. What do they want? An email sent to their smart phones with only that inconvenience to their busy lives of checking facebook, checking facebook, checking facebook, tweeting pictures of lunch, an incoherent post on facebook or twitter. The sense of entitlement and spoilt background of younger people is for all to see this weekend. Absolutely; we have only ourselves to blame. It's not even being spoilt, as in enjoying the spoils of their parents, but rather the result of society that expects instant gratification, interest free sofas and brand new cars on finance. Twenty, thirty years ago, you reached 16, you got a job. As soon as you could afford it, you moved out and learnt about life and made mistakes. Now, people reach 16 and get their first mobile contract, ensuring they constantly upgrade to the latest model. When they learn to drive, they then go out and buy a car on finance. When it comes to moving out, they then wonder how they can afford it given their current monthly commitments. An extremely simplistic scenario, but you know what I mean. Matt, I'm not saying this about racism; I'm saying that there's a section of society, probably the younger voters, who feel worried that this has legitimized a dangerous mindset. I even stated in my post that I'm not claiming all Leavers are racist, and even went on to say that fellow HOL'ers aren't Joe Bloggs and have a better understanding of the situation. Also, just to clarify, I'm an area manager for a company, and I deal pretty much solely with SME's. My area is as far south as Luton and Oxford, and right up to Doncaster, Grimsby etc. I live near former Industrial towns such as Coaville and Corby, and also cover all of Lincolnshire, including Boston. I have a great insight into these places, the people that live there and the reality of the modern English town. I also don't disagree with your comments regarding the EU. Not once did I say it was a good idea, or that it was perfect. As for the use of the word hoodwinked, I was trying to sum up the underlying feeling when it came to the marketing of the Leave campaign. The leaflets that were pushed through my door were laughable. For a few examples, take the use of Turkey, and its proximity to Iraq and Syria. Turkey has wanted to be involved with EU long before this referendum, and not once did one of those leaflets mention A)when Turkey actually declared its interest, or B) the criteria of joining the EU and how many Turkey had met. I'd also like to mention the magic £350 million, with no mention of the rebate. As I said, BOTH campaigns were shoddy. Hoodwinked could apply to both sides, because it was poorly run, inefficiently debated and woefully communicated. People are dumb, and read the headline, and make assumptions based on that. Whether that's human nature or an insight into how much people care, understand and question is another matter. Like I said, I wasn't trying to offer my view on the EU or the questions this referendum raises; I was simply trying to offer a viewpoint from the section of society possibly being labeled as bitter and sour, when our disappointment stems from something else entirely. RED AND BLUE ARMY!
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Leicestershireeagle

South Leicestershire 26 Jun 16 11.00am

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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I get your point on social disillusion. It'll blow over when people have more things to think about in their lives than they have this weekend and after a holiday.

I raised the poor turn out from younger voters to Mapletree's daughter on Friday night after she blamed us. She agreed. And what if there wasn't a 48 hour extension to registering to vote? The winning margin for leave would've been wider. What do they want? An email sent to their smart phones with only that inconvenience to their busy lives of checking facebook, checking facebook, checking facebook, tweeting pictures of lunch, an incoherent post on facebook or twitter. The sense of entitlement and spoilt background of younger people is for all to see this weekend.

Absolutely; we have only ourselves to blame. It's not even being spoilt, as in enjoying the spoils of their parents, but rather the result of society that expects instant gratification, interest free sofas and brand new cars on finance. Twenty, thirty years ago, you reached 16, you got a job. As soon as you could afford it, you moved out and learnt about life and made mistakes. Now, people reach 16 and get their first mobile contract, ensuring they constantly upgrade to the latest model. When they learn to drive, they then go out and buy a car on finance. When it comes to moving out, they then wonder how they can afford it given their current monthly commitments. An extremely simplistic scenario, but you know what I mean.

Matt, I'm not saying this about racism; I'm saying that there's a section of society, probably the younger voters, who feel worried that this has legitimized a dangerous mindset. I even stated in my post that I'm not claiming all Leavers are racist, and even went on to say that fellow HOL'ers aren't Joe Bloggs and have a better understanding of the situation.

Also, just to clarify, I'm an area manager for a company, and I deal pretty much solely with SME's. My area is as far south as Luton and Oxford, and right up to Doncaster, Grimsby etc. I live near former Industrial towns such as Coaville and Corby, and also cover all of Lincolnshire, including Boston. I have a great insight into these places, the people that live there and the reality of the modern English town.

I also don't disagree with your comments regarding the EU. Not once did I say it was a good idea, or that it was perfect.

As for the use of the word hoodwinked, I was trying to sum up the underlying feeling when it came to the marketing of the Leave campaign. The leaflets that were pushed through my door were laughable. For a few examples, take the use of Turkey, and its proximity to Iraq and Syria. Turkey has wanted to be involved with EU long before this referendum, and not once did one of those leaflets mention A)when Turkey actually declared its interest, or B) the criteria of joining the EU and how many Turkey had met. I'd also like to mention the magic £350 million, with no mention of the rebate.

As I said, BOTH campaigns were shoddy. Hoodwinked could apply to both sides, because it was poorly run, inefficiently debated and woefully communicated. People are dumb, and read the headline, and make assumptions based on that. Whether that's human nature or an insight into how much people care, understand and question is another matter.

Like I said, I wasn't trying to offer my view on the EU or the questions this referendum raises; I was simply trying to offer a viewpoint from the section of society possibly being labeled as bitter and sour, when our disappointment stems from something else entirely.

RED AND BLUE ARMY!

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Hoof Hearted 26 Jun 16 11.04am
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Still trading with the EU. We are German the car makers' biggest buyer. 20% of their cars. 2nd wealthiest European nation with cash to spend (ignore the short-term FTSE/pound fall to claim we're behind France cos we aint) Expansion of markets outside of the EU which are restricted. They crossed at 50% in 2008 and non-EU exports are at 45% but because of some very hefty tariffs in some cases we struggle to expand. Result? More jobs in a globalised world. A shift into more manufacturing entrepreneurial spirit. Less reliance on just services and financial services to be precise. Remember how damaged we were after the last financial crises and liquidity stopped? Restricted immigration. When the living wage comes into effect in 2020 and it amounts to another 100% or 200% more than people can earn in their own country, what do you think it's going to do to our own citizens' employment? A chance to get more on top of the housing crisis that's been going on since 2004 when the floodgates were opened. Were plans made to house the freedom of movement? No. Were they honest about the numbers coming? No. New Labour said ten's of thousands. We've seen hundreds of thousands every year. Less net earnings leaving the country and reducing the multiplier effect. There's talk of tax receipts in excess of benefit claims by EU migrants of 2 billion. What about wages leaving the country? Apparently the more rational EU London workers have laughed about the referendum and said "Well we're already here and if we left because everyone else did then so what. We're only here for the money and we don't blame Britain for voting out anyway." Some EU workers before the ref were saying immigration was out of control and needed reducing. More markets, more consumers, more demand, more prosperity, stronger economy, stronger nation, prouder nation. More room, more land unused, more options for the young to buy property, start a family and raise tax payers to balance out the ageing population instead of importing tax payers and ignoring the wages leaving the UK. BRAVO Rudi. Absolutely spot on mate!
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Hoof Hearted 26 Jun 16 11.04am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Still trading with the EU. We are German the car makers' biggest buyer. 20% of their cars. 2nd wealthiest European nation with cash to spend (ignore the short-term FTSE/pound fall to claim we're behind France cos we aint)

Expansion of markets outside of the EU which are restricted. They crossed at 50% in 2008 and non-EU exports are at 45% but because of some very hefty tariffs in some cases we struggle to expand. Result? More jobs in a globalised world.

A shift into more manufacturing entrepreneurial spirit.

Less reliance on just services and financial services to be precise. Remember how damaged we were after the last financial crises and liquidity stopped?

Restricted immigration. When the living wage comes into effect in 2020 and it amounts to another 100% or 200% more than people can earn in their own country, what do you think it's going to do to our own citizens' employment?

A chance to get more on top of the housing crisis that's been going on since 2004 when the floodgates were opened. Were plans made to house the freedom of movement? No. Were they honest about the numbers coming? No. New Labour said ten's of thousands. We've seen hundreds of thousands every year.

Less net earnings leaving the country and reducing the multiplier effect. There's talk of tax receipts in excess of benefit claims by EU migrants of 2 billion. What about wages leaving the country? Apparently the more rational EU London workers have laughed about the referendum and said "Well we're already here and if we left because everyone else did then so what. We're only here for the money and we don't blame Britain for voting out anyway." Some EU workers before the ref were saying immigration was out of control and needed reducing.

More markets, more consumers, more demand, more prosperity, stronger economy, stronger nation, prouder nation.

More room, more land unused, more options for the young to buy property, start a family and raise tax payers to balance out the ageing population instead of importing tax payers and ignoring the wages leaving the UK.

BRAVO Rudi.

Absolutely spot on mate!

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Hoof Hearted 26 Jun 16 11.16am
Originally posted by Kermit8 It's not democratic when people have been hoodwinked before casting their vote. It's manipulation. Like in 1975 when the we thought the EEC was a common trading platform, not the beginnings of a European Super State? I don't know about you, but I voted in 1975 and we were all hoodwinked! I'll bet you don't respond to this!
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Hoof Hearted 26 Jun 16 11.16am

Originally posted by Kermit8

It's not democratic when people have been hoodwinked before casting their vote. It's manipulation.

Like in 1975 when the we thought the EEC was a common trading platform, not the beginnings of a European Super State?

I don't know about you, but I voted in 1975 and we were all hoodwinked!

I'll bet you don't respond to this!

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Hoof Hearted 26 Jun 16 11.27am
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I think the aim is for you and us for leave to give up. The more they deny or appear 'inelastic' in their ability to recognise basic concepts, the more they frustrate us and get their way. "Clever" people always ignore the simple things Rudi, and try to bamboozle us with their bullsh1t. You cannot fit a quart in a pint pot.
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Hoof Hearted 26 Jun 16 11.27am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I think the aim is for you and us for leave to give up. The more they deny or appear 'inelastic' in their ability to recognise basic concepts, the more they frustrate us and get their way.

"Clever" people always ignore the simple things Rudi, and try to bamboozle us with their bullsh1t.

You cannot fit a quart in a pint pot.

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Mapletree Croydon 26 Jun 16 11.48am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted You keep making up other reasons, but at some point it will dawn on you why what I've said is actually so. Basic rule of economics..... Excessive demand causes prices to rise. London house prices are rising higher than the rest of the country because more immigrants are drawn there like a fcuking magnet. Reductionism doesn't cut it with you because you are stupid. Ever since you arrived on here you've been having a go at "me and my sort" as you put it, like we're some lucky recipients of life's golden ticket. You seem to think it was easy for me in 1977 to get a house? Me and the Mrs had to save and scrimp to get the deposit by not going out having home made sandwiches for lunch, spending holidays working in a pub etc. Kids today don't want to do that, they prefer to whinge to their stupid parents who have given them too much and spoilt them. I'll bet many of the moaners are living it up at Glasto right now. There have been loads of events in my life where I could have thrown in the towel, but I didn't, Redundancy after I relocated to Bristol wasn't a nice thing, but instead of crying and whingeing I got on with life and started afresh. Stop listening to your whiney spoilt kids - tell them to get off their arses and earn the money to make their lives better instead of moaning to Dad. I am not stupid Price rises are driven by other factors than the supply of the good. The availability of credit being a particular driver for London house prices. My children don't whine and aren't spoilt I have had more hardship in my life than you other than your health issues I eat home made sandwiches for my lunch still. I have never taken my full allocation of holiday and work 7 day, 70 hour weeks. I have a go at you and your ilk as you come across as 'I'm all right Jack'. Your lack of empathy is spectacular. You may not be stupid but your emotional intelligence clearly is low. My kids will make their own way. It is a shame that looks increasingly like it won't be in the UK as the opportunities shrink.
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Mapletree

Croydon 26 Jun 16 11.48am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

You keep making up other reasons, but at some point it will dawn on you why what I've said is actually so.

Basic rule of economics..... Excessive demand causes prices to rise.

London house prices are rising higher than the rest of the country because more immigrants are drawn there like a fcuking magnet.

You seem to think it was easy for me in 1977 to get a house?

Me and the Mrs had to save and scrimp to get the deposit by not going out having home made sandwiches for lunch, spending holidays working in a pub etc. Kids today don't want to do that, they prefer to whinge to their stupid parents who have given them too much and spoilt them. I'll bet many of the moaners are living it up at Glasto right now.

There have been loads of events in my life where I could have thrown in the towel, but I didn't, Redundancy after I relocated to Bristol wasn't a nice thing, but instead of crying and whingeing I got on with life and started afresh.

Stop listening to your whiney spoilt kids - tell them to get off their arses and earn the money to make their lives better instead of moaning to Dad.

I am not stupid

Price rises are driven by other factors than the supply of the good. The availability of credit being a particular driver for London house prices.

My children don't whine and aren't spoilt

I have had more hardship in my life than you other than your health issues

I eat home made sandwiches for my lunch still. I have never taken my full allocation of holiday and work 7 day, 70 hour weeks.

I have a go at you and your ilk as you come across as 'I'm all right Jack'. Your lack of empathy is spectacular. You may not be stupid but your emotional intelligence clearly is low.

My kids will make their own way. It is a shame that looks increasingly like it won't be in the UK as the opportunities shrink.

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Mapletree Croydon 26 Jun 16 11.54am
Originally posted by matt_himself Exactly. The political elite has taken a kicking. Andrew Marr was a delight this morning. IDS, Sturgeon, Polly f***ing Toynbee, none of them had a clue what was going on or what to do about it. The only one who came across with any principles was Hilary Benn. Edited by matt_himself (26 Jun 2016 10.34am) It's beginning to worry me that I agree with you so much Matt. How the hell Sajid Javid is in his post is quite beyond me. Benn was so much better than the rest.
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Mapletree

Croydon 26 Jun 16 11.54am

Originally posted by matt_himself

Exactly. The political elite has taken a kicking. Andrew Marr was a delight this morning. IDS, Sturgeon, Polly f***ing Toynbee, none of them had a clue what was going on or what to do about it. The only one who came across with any principles was Hilary Benn.

Edited by matt_himself (26 Jun 2016 10.34am)

It's beginning to worry me that I agree with you so much Matt. How the hell Sajid Javid is in his post is quite beyond me. Benn was so much better than the rest.

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Mapletree Croydon 26 Jun 16 11.55am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted "Clever" people always ignore the simple things Rudi, and try to bamboozle us with their bullsh1t. You cannot fit a quart in a pint pot. Is that compliment aimed at me? Thanks
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Mapletree

Croydon 26 Jun 16 11.55am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

"Clever" people always ignore the simple things Rudi, and try to bamboozle us with their bullsh1t.

You cannot fit a quart in a pint pot.

Is that compliment aimed at me? Thanks

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DivingIsNotGood se25 26 Jun 16 12.13pm
Do not trust Borris, watch him like a HAWK. He is going to negotiate UK back into EU. VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again
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DivingIsNotGood

se25 26 Jun 16 12.13pm

Do not trust Borris, watch him like a HAWK. He is going to negotiate UK back into EU.

VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again

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DivingIsNotGood se25 26 Jun 16 12.15pm
We need Swiss model where politicians are all accountable to us, the common people. VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again
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DivingIsNotGood

se25 26 Jun 16 12.15pm

We need Swiss model where politicians are all accountable to us, the common people.

VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again

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Mapletree Croydon 26 Jun 16 12.19pm
Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood We need Swiss model where politicians are all accountable to us, the common people. Shock horror, politician and well known rogue uses a populist movement to further his personal ambitions, then immediately changes stance on almost everything. Well I never.
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Mapletree

Croydon 26 Jun 16 12.19pm

Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood

We need Swiss model where politicians are all accountable to us, the common people.

Shock horror, politician and well known rogue uses a populist movement to further his personal ambitions, then immediately changes stance on almost everything.

Well I never.

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