Agree. I said at the beginning Ukraine should’ve been allowed (and helped to make it fsir) the chance to defend and not make it a pushover. However, there are clearly going to be worldwide problems and there are very little efforts to bring about peace by negotiation which is no doubt the only other option to more and more ammunition and warheads.

COYP

I always hope that there is more going on behind the scenes that we know of, but that could be wishful thinking on my part. It pays to factor in though, that even in an eventuality where Ukraine and Russia band over backwards it doesn't mean that Russia will play ball or that they have any real motivation to do so. They clearly initially intended on going 'the whole way'. I'm not sure the no longer arming Ukraine would make them less likely to push on, it could have the opposite effect. There's an argument for various approaches, and stalling progress to the point where they come to the table is one of them. To my mind there are no easy answers really, where we get a guaranteed outcome if we do X, Y, or Z. It's a horror show regardless of what comes next.

Russian reports say they have control of most of that city now with most of the resistance held up in the Azot power plant.....an estimated 2500 mix of troops, foreign mercs and civilians. They are allowing a pathway for surrender to Russian confinement. A lot is being thrown by both sides around this area.

I suspect that Russia have decided to go with death sentences for foreigners as a way of deterring all but the most committed.

The Ukraine do seem to be making some progress on their southern offensive. Reports suggest that they are fighting somewhere around 20km from Kherson after making inroads.

As ever developments on the battlefield suffer from the fog of war, fast changing conditions and propaganda from both sides.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Jun 2022 1.52pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I'm hearing that the Russians are already fighting around the bridge area closest to Lysychansk and that pockets of troops are surrendering around the Azot plant.....not that it makes sense for the mercs to.

No doubt artillery duels will decide who progresses initially around that bridge area. I think the Ukrainians have a lot of troops in Lysychansk and while they aren't cut off a lot of fighting is yet to come.

All the bridges are damaged too much for armour to cross but infantry can......Whoever wins that area will use sapper equipment for the bridges to allow armour to cross.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Jun 2022 7.18pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Don't quite know what happened there.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2022 7.04pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

If I was "scared" I would have stayed at home instead of working in different hospitals every day during the entire pandemic. I could have easily cried off but put others before myself.