You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Conservative Leadership Runners and Riders
November 22 2024 1.26pm

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Conservative Leadership Runners and Riders

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 28 of 45 < 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 >

  

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Jul 22 11.08am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

But the system in place is that preferred by those we supposedly elect to make decisions for us.

Is it?

I think it is preferred by those who currently control the party system.

Give the MPs a free vote and we might be surprised.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
W12 28 Jul 22 1.09pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Is it?

I think it is preferred by those who currently control the party system.

Give the MPs a free vote and we might be surprised.

MP's rarely get a free vote on anything significant due to the whipping system. That's your "democracy" at work.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
Teddy Eagle Flag 28 Jul 22 1.27pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Is it?

I think it is preferred by those who currently control the party system.

Give the MPs a free vote and we might be surprised.

Are they the elites?

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Jul 22 2.03pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yeah, we really needed the higher crime rates, lower social cohesion and lower living standards and higher wealth inequality that neo and social liberalism has given the majority.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jul 2022 10.46am)

This constant blaming of all our ills on "social liberalism" is an obsession without an actual basis.

Do our Continental neighbours, and the Nordic countries, manage themselves using social democratic principles at their core? Are they more socially liberal than us? Are they more prosperous and happier than us? The answer to all must be yes!

Do these countries suffer higher crime rates, lower social cohesion, lower living standards and higher wealth inequality than we do? The answer is clearly no.

So it isn't "social liberalism" that causes this. Indeed, I would argue precisely the opposite. That the answer is to introduce real social liberalism into our country, with the aim of increasing opportunities, reducing discrimination, closing the wealth gap and raising living standards. Do that and the crime rate will fall.

Our problem is not social liberalism. It's having both our major parties with feet of clay, and either unwilling or unable to reform themselves to ensure they are fit for purpose in today's world.

We need social liberalism. We haven't yet got it.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Jul 22 2.05pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by W12

MP's rarely get a free vote on anything significant due to the whipping system. That's your "democracy" at work.

No it isn't!

It's the current system at work, which requires a root and branch overhaul to become truly democratic.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Jul 22 2.18pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Are they the elites?

Not unless you regard Union bosses alongside multi-millionaire funders as elites.

For me, it's a systemic failure which needs to be thrown away.

I would severely limit the funding any individual, or organisation, could donate to a party. Buying influence is not acceptable. I would restrict the power of local parties to the selection of their candidate. I would fund political parties centrally, by raising specific taxes on large companies and VAT on luxury items. It would not be a lot in the scale of things.

How that gets allocated is something that needs to be studied. Currently, small parties, without special interest backing, are disadvantaged and this needs to be rectified. How it gets spent needs to be controlled, with limits set so that it is the arguments that win, and not the funding.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Stirlingsays Flag 28 Jul 22 2.24pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

This constant blaming of all our ills on "social liberalism" is an obsession without an actual basis.

Do our Continental neighbours, and the Nordic countries, manage themselves using social democratic principles at their core? Are they more socially liberal than us? Are they more prosperous and happier than us? The answer to all must be yes!

Do these countries suffer higher crime rates, lower social cohesion, lower living standards and higher wealth inequality than we do? The answer is clearly no.

So it isn't "social liberalism" that causes this. Indeed, I would argue precisely the opposite. That the answer is to introduce real social liberalism into our country, with the aim of increasing opportunities, reducing discrimination, closing the wealth gap and raising living standards. Do that and the crime rate will fall.

Our problem is not social liberalism. It's having both our major parties with feet of clay, and either unwilling or unable to reform themselves to ensure they are fit for purpose in today's world.

We need social liberalism. We haven't yet got it.

Continental countries and Nordic countries before large scale immigration didn't have high crime rates and much higher social cohesion and the rest of it....Yes, everything I said is true for them as well.

Compare the diverse areas with the non diverse areas for all those statistics.....or you know, continue to live in fantasy land.

How about you move from non diverse Cornwall to Brixton and experience the reality.

It's like listening to a communist say, 'real communism hasn't really been tried'. Up is down and left is right.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jul 2022 4.43pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
W12 28 Jul 22 3.40pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Continental countries and Nordic countries before large scale immigration didn't have high crime rates and much higher social cohesion and the rest of it....Yes, everything I said is true for them as well.

Compare the diverse areas with the non diverse areas for all those statistic.....or you know, continue to live in fantasy land.

How about you move from non diverse Cornwall to Brixton and experience the reality.

It's like listening to a communist say, 'real communism hasn't really been tried'. Up is down and left is right.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jul 2022 2.29pm)

I'm sure bringing millions of people from the middle east, pakistan, Afghanistan etc will help introduce "true" social liberalism. You know, because of our magic water and all that.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Jul 22 11.25pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Continental countries and Nordic countries before large scale immigration didn't have high crime rates and much higher social cohesion and the rest of it....Yes, everything I said is true for them as well.

Compare the diverse areas with the non diverse areas for all those statistics.....or you know, continue to live in fantasy land.

How about you move from non diverse Cornwall to Brixton and experience the reality.

It's like listening to a communist say, 'real communism hasn't really been tried'. Up is down and left is right.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jul 2022 4.43pm)

My feet are firmly on the ground and my eyes wide open. I can see what the realities are, whilst you wish for an imaginary world that never actually existed.

Why you continue to believe that me living in Cornwall makes any difference beats me, any more than you living in Wisbech, as I used to, does. I completely understand that different areas have different characters, that some are in transition. Since Brexit we have seen a huge increase in immigration here, particularly of health workers from Africa, replacing those from the EU who have returned to their home countries. I bet that is something you really wanted to happen!

Measuring crime rates isn't simple and depends on what you decide to measure and whether the statistics can be trusted. Bringing out your favourite hobby horse of immigration to make unsubstantiated claims is therefore nonsensical. There simply isn't any evidence to support a causal link.

Whilst the picture varies a little, my original statement is completely accurate. On average, the Continental European and Nordic countries are performing better than we are. Not only on crime rates, but in almost every other way. Having been in Spain, France and Italy in the past week I have seen this for myself, albeit on a tiny scale. I was in a seedy area of Naples for a few hours, full of immigrants from North Africa, crowded and suffering intense heat. Nevertheless, it didn't feel threatening. The people seemed to respect one another, communicated with each other, laughed together and seemed generally happy. Everyone knew they were needed. They are doing something right, which we aren't.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Teddy Eagle Flag 29 Jul 22 12.23am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

My feet are firmly on the ground and my eyes wide open. I can see what the realities are, whilst you wish for an imaginary world that never actually existed.

Why you continue to believe that me living in Cornwall makes any difference beats me, any more than you living in Wisbech, as I used to, does. I completely understand that different areas have different characters, that some are in transition. Since Brexit we have seen a huge increase in immigration here, particularly of health workers from Africa, replacing those from the EU who have returned to their home countries. I bet that is something you really wanted to happen!

Measuring crime rates isn't simple and depends on what you decide to measure and whether the statistics can be trusted. Bringing out your favourite hobby horse of immigration to make unsubstantiated claims is therefore nonsensical. There simply isn't any evidence to support a causal link.

Whilst the picture varies a little, my original statement is completely accurate. On average, the Continental European and Nordic countries are performing better than we are. Not only on crime rates, but in almost every other way. Having been in Spain, France and Italy in the past week I have seen this for myself, albeit on a tiny scale. I was in a seedy area of Naples for a few hours, full of immigrants from North Africa, crowded and suffering intense heat. Nevertheless, it didn't feel threatening. The people seemed to respect one another, communicated with each other, laughed together and seemed generally happy. Everyone knew they were needed. They are doing something right, which we aren't.

If people in London gave their opinions on trawlermen or farming they'd be told they don't understand the problems but apparently everybody can explain city life.
The thing is nobody will really understand things until they've lived it. When it's your wife or kids who've been mugged and robbed and are afraid to walk home or there are people around with knives, or worse, and drugs are all over the place attitudes tend to sour.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Helmet46 Flag Croydon 29 Jul 22 5.47am Send a Private Message to Helmet46 Add Helmet46 as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

If people in London gave their opinions on trawlermen or farming they'd be told they don't understand the problems but apparently everybody can explain city life.
The thing is nobody will really understand things until they've lived it. When it's your wife or kids who've been mugged and robbed and are afraid to walk home or there are people around with knives, or worse, and drugs are all over the place attitudes tend to sour.


Indeed. It’s pretty easy to sit in a comfy armchair in a rural district and tell those of us that live in a big City, every day, that we’re wrong.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 29 Jul 22 8.48am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Returning to the subject matter, A YouGov poll found Conservative members backing Liz Truss by a margin of 24 points, so Sunak badly needs everything to go right.

Members will receive ballot papers in the coming week.Members like Conservative voters at large, have a tendency to vote with some alacrity and typically just over half return by post.By and large minds have been made up and Sunak only has a short period to turn the tide.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

  

Page 28 of 45 < 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Conservative Leadership Runners and Riders