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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Jul 22 11.08am | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
But the system in place is that preferred by those we supposedly elect to make decisions for us. Is it? I think it is preferred by those who currently control the party system. Give the MPs a free vote and we might be surprised.
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W12 28 Jul 22 1.09pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Is it? I think it is preferred by those who currently control the party system. Give the MPs a free vote and we might be surprised. MP's rarely get a free vote on anything significant due to the whipping system. That's your "democracy" at work.
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Teddy Eagle 28 Jul 22 1.27pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Is it? I think it is preferred by those who currently control the party system. Give the MPs a free vote and we might be surprised. Are they the elites?
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Jul 22 2.03pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yeah, we really needed the higher crime rates, lower social cohesion and lower living standards and higher wealth inequality that neo and social liberalism has given the majority. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jul 2022 10.46am) This constant blaming of all our ills on "social liberalism" is an obsession without an actual basis. Do our Continental neighbours, and the Nordic countries, manage themselves using social democratic principles at their core? Are they more socially liberal than us? Are they more prosperous and happier than us? The answer to all must be yes! Do these countries suffer higher crime rates, lower social cohesion, lower living standards and higher wealth inequality than we do? The answer is clearly no. So it isn't "social liberalism" that causes this. Indeed, I would argue precisely the opposite. That the answer is to introduce real social liberalism into our country, with the aim of increasing opportunities, reducing discrimination, closing the wealth gap and raising living standards. Do that and the crime rate will fall. Our problem is not social liberalism. It's having both our major parties with feet of clay, and either unwilling or unable to reform themselves to ensure they are fit for purpose in today's world. We need social liberalism. We haven't yet got it.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Jul 22 2.05pm | |
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Originally posted by W12
MP's rarely get a free vote on anything significant due to the whipping system. That's your "democracy" at work. No it isn't! It's the current system at work, which requires a root and branch overhaul to become truly democratic.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Jul 22 2.18pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Are they the elites? Not unless you regard Union bosses alongside multi-millionaire funders as elites. For me, it's a systemic failure which needs to be thrown away. I would severely limit the funding any individual, or organisation, could donate to a party. Buying influence is not acceptable. I would restrict the power of local parties to the selection of their candidate. I would fund political parties centrally, by raising specific taxes on large companies and VAT on luxury items. It would not be a lot in the scale of things. How that gets allocated is something that needs to be studied. Currently, small parties, without special interest backing, are disadvantaged and this needs to be rectified. How it gets spent needs to be controlled, with limits set so that it is the arguments that win, and not the funding.
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Stirlingsays 28 Jul 22 2.24pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
This constant blaming of all our ills on "social liberalism" is an obsession without an actual basis. Do our Continental neighbours, and the Nordic countries, manage themselves using social democratic principles at their core? Are they more socially liberal than us? Are they more prosperous and happier than us? The answer to all must be yes! Do these countries suffer higher crime rates, lower social cohesion, lower living standards and higher wealth inequality than we do? The answer is clearly no. So it isn't "social liberalism" that causes this. Indeed, I would argue precisely the opposite. That the answer is to introduce real social liberalism into our country, with the aim of increasing opportunities, reducing discrimination, closing the wealth gap and raising living standards. Do that and the crime rate will fall. Our problem is not social liberalism. It's having both our major parties with feet of clay, and either unwilling or unable to reform themselves to ensure they are fit for purpose in today's world. We need social liberalism. We haven't yet got it. Continental countries and Nordic countries before large scale immigration didn't have high crime rates and much higher social cohesion and the rest of it....Yes, everything I said is true for them as well. Compare the diverse areas with the non diverse areas for all those statistics.....or you know, continue to live in fantasy land. How about you move from non diverse Cornwall to Brixton and experience the reality. It's like listening to a communist say, 'real communism hasn't really been tried'. Up is down and left is right. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jul 2022 4.43pm)
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W12 28 Jul 22 3.40pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Continental countries and Nordic countries before large scale immigration didn't have high crime rates and much higher social cohesion and the rest of it....Yes, everything I said is true for them as well. Compare the diverse areas with the non diverse areas for all those statistic.....or you know, continue to live in fantasy land. How about you move from non diverse Cornwall to Brixton and experience the reality. It's like listening to a communist say, 'real communism hasn't really been tried'. Up is down and left is right. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jul 2022 2.29pm) I'm sure bringing millions of people from the middle east, pakistan, Afghanistan etc will help introduce "true" social liberalism. You know, because of our magic water and all that.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Jul 22 11.25pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Continental countries and Nordic countries before large scale immigration didn't have high crime rates and much higher social cohesion and the rest of it....Yes, everything I said is true for them as well. Compare the diverse areas with the non diverse areas for all those statistics.....or you know, continue to live in fantasy land. How about you move from non diverse Cornwall to Brixton and experience the reality. It's like listening to a communist say, 'real communism hasn't really been tried'. Up is down and left is right. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jul 2022 4.43pm) My feet are firmly on the ground and my eyes wide open. I can see what the realities are, whilst you wish for an imaginary world that never actually existed. Why you continue to believe that me living in Cornwall makes any difference beats me, any more than you living in Wisbech, as I used to, does. I completely understand that different areas have different characters, that some are in transition. Since Brexit we have seen a huge increase in immigration here, particularly of health workers from Africa, replacing those from the EU who have returned to their home countries. I bet that is something you really wanted to happen! Measuring crime rates isn't simple and depends on what you decide to measure and whether the statistics can be trusted. Bringing out your favourite hobby horse of immigration to make unsubstantiated claims is therefore nonsensical. There simply isn't any evidence to support a causal link. Whilst the picture varies a little, my original statement is completely accurate. On average, the Continental European and Nordic countries are performing better than we are. Not only on crime rates, but in almost every other way. Having been in Spain, France and Italy in the past week I have seen this for myself, albeit on a tiny scale. I was in a seedy area of Naples for a few hours, full of immigrants from North Africa, crowded and suffering intense heat. Nevertheless, it didn't feel threatening. The people seemed to respect one another, communicated with each other, laughed together and seemed generally happy. Everyone knew they were needed. They are doing something right, which we aren't.
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Teddy Eagle 29 Jul 22 12.23am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
My feet are firmly on the ground and my eyes wide open. I can see what the realities are, whilst you wish for an imaginary world that never actually existed. Why you continue to believe that me living in Cornwall makes any difference beats me, any more than you living in Wisbech, as I used to, does. I completely understand that different areas have different characters, that some are in transition. Since Brexit we have seen a huge increase in immigration here, particularly of health workers from Africa, replacing those from the EU who have returned to their home countries. I bet that is something you really wanted to happen! Measuring crime rates isn't simple and depends on what you decide to measure and whether the statistics can be trusted. Bringing out your favourite hobby horse of immigration to make unsubstantiated claims is therefore nonsensical. There simply isn't any evidence to support a causal link. Whilst the picture varies a little, my original statement is completely accurate. On average, the Continental European and Nordic countries are performing better than we are. Not only on crime rates, but in almost every other way. Having been in Spain, France and Italy in the past week I have seen this for myself, albeit on a tiny scale. I was in a seedy area of Naples for a few hours, full of immigrants from North Africa, crowded and suffering intense heat. Nevertheless, it didn't feel threatening. The people seemed to respect one another, communicated with each other, laughed together and seemed generally happy. Everyone knew they were needed. They are doing something right, which we aren't. If people in London gave their opinions on trawlermen or farming they'd be told they don't understand the problems but apparently everybody can explain city life.
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Helmet46 Croydon 29 Jul 22 5.47am | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
If people in London gave their opinions on trawlermen or farming they'd be told they don't understand the problems but apparently everybody can explain city life.
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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 29 Jul 22 8.48am | |
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Returning to the subject matter, A YouGov poll found Conservative members backing Liz Truss by a margin of 24 points, so Sunak badly needs everything to go right. Members will receive ballot papers in the coming week.Members like Conservative voters at large, have a tendency to vote with some alacrity and typically just over half return by post.By and large minds have been made up and Sunak only has a short period to turn the tide.
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