Gareth Thomas Documentary – Alfie v Homophobia – T - Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website

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Gareth Thomas Documentary – Alfie v Homophobia – T

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legaleagle 07 Aug 17 1.20pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Just like all aspects of human nature I don't like what I hear from a crowd from time to time....I think some shouted comments are offensive, some chants are stupid and songs are immature nonsense.....that said, I find the suggestions that the crowd should be 'educated' or 'censored' because so called betters don't like the holistic nature of human nature within crowds....I find that much more scary. .................................................... Do you think crowds in Europe making monkey noises at black players should not be "educated" or "censored" either?Is the idea of censoring or educating them something that scares you too? Edited by legaleagle (07 Aug 2017 1.20pm)
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legaleagle

07 Aug 17 1.20pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Just like all aspects of human nature I don't like what I hear from a crowd from time to time....I think some shouted comments are offensive, some chants are stupid and songs are immature nonsense.....that said, I find the suggestions that the crowd should be 'educated' or 'censored' because so called betters don't like the holistic nature of human nature within crowds....I find that much more scary.

....................................................

Do you think crowds in Europe making monkey noises at black players should not be "educated" or "censored" either?Is the idea of censoring or educating them something that scares you too?

Edited by legaleagle (07 Aug 2017 1.20pm)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Aug 17 1.21pm
I actually doubt 10% of the population are gay. There is certainly not 10% of the crowd being gay at football. 10% of school and college classes gay? No. 10% of all or even some workplaces gay? No. 10% of people I've met gay? No. 10% of people in every city gay? Really? Or 10% of over 18s in Britain gay? Just don't see it. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 07 Aug 17 1.21pm

I actually doubt 10% of the population are gay. There is certainly not 10% of the crowd being gay at football.

10% of school and college classes gay? No.

10% of all or even some workplaces gay? No.

10% of people I've met gay? No.

10% of people in every city gay? Really?

Or 10% of over 18s in Britain gay? Just don't see it.

COYP

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Stirlingsays 07 Aug 17 1.28pm
Originally posted by legaleagle Do you think crowds in Europe making monkey noises at black players should not be "educated" or "censored" either?Is the idea of censoring or educating them something that scares you too? Censoring them is just wrong. Educating them assumes this silly idea that they don't know what they are doing.....You can't sanitize a crowd in a free society. It's not nice, I accept that....when I was taking my young nephew to games I really disliked those in the crowd shouting out swear words. Tell me legal, how do you propose to censor and educate the anti seminism and anti homosexual attitudes that exist within our Islamic community? How shall we 'educate' people within the Labour party over anti seminism? Because of course...they are just ignorant of their views....as if. I understand the frustration....but unless you regard people as a proven threat...well that's another thread. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Aug 2017 1.32pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Aug 17 1.28pm

Originally posted by legaleagle

Do you think crowds in Europe making monkey noises at black players should not be "educated" or "censored" either?Is the idea of censoring or educating them something that scares you too?

Censoring them is just wrong. Educating them assumes this silly idea that they don't know what they are doing.....You can't sanitize a crowd in a free society.

It's not nice, I accept that....when I was taking my young nephew to games I really disliked those in the crowd shouting out swear words.

Tell me legal, how do you propose to censor and educate the anti seminism and anti homosexual attitudes that exist within our Islamic community?

How shall we 'educate' people within the Labour party over anti seminism? Because of course...they are just ignorant of their views....as if.

I understand the frustration....but unless you regard people as a proven threat...well that's another thread.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Aug 2017 1.32pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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legaleagle 07 Aug 17 1.33pm
So, getting back to the point,you don't propose crowds doing monkey chants in Europe should be censored (through bans) or educated. Nuff said. Part of the reason my kids' generation (from what I can see) have experienced a far less prejudiced educational environment than I or many of my generation did is through education.
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legaleagle

07 Aug 17 1.33pm

So, getting back to the point,you don't propose crowds doing monkey chants in Europe should be censored (through bans) or educated.

Nuff said.

Part of the reason my kids' generation (from what I can see) have experienced a far less prejudiced educational environment than I or many of my generation did is through education.

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Stirlingsays 07 Aug 17 1.36pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I actually doubt 10% of the population are gay. There is certainly not 10% of the crowd being gay at football. 10% of school and college classes gay? No. 10% of all or even some workplaces gay? No. 10% of people I've met gay? No. 10% of people in every city gay? Really? Or 10% of over 18s in Britain gay? Just don't see it. I use to think it was about this....I was greatly surprised when the statistics suggested that it's around one in twenty.....I suspect it's probably higher than that....one in fifteen perhaps. There seems to be a difference between the age generations with older people being more certain of their sexuality than younger people....All very confusing. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Aug 17 1.36pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I actually doubt 10% of the population are gay. There is certainly not 10% of the crowd being gay at football.

10% of school and college classes gay? No.

10% of all or even some workplaces gay? No.

10% of people I've met gay? No.

10% of people in every city gay? Really?

Or 10% of over 18s in Britain gay? Just don't see it.

I use to think it was about this....I was greatly surprised when the statistics suggested that it's around one in twenty.....I suspect it's probably higher than that....one in fifteen perhaps.

There seems to be a difference between the age generations with older people being more certain of their sexuality than younger people....All very confusing.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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wordup 07 Aug 17 1.47pm
It was telling that noone bothered turning up to discuss this is person with Thomas. Lot's of keyboard warriors around. At the end of the day anyone hurling obscene statements whether they're monkey chants or stuff about 'queers' at a game should not be surprise if eventually they are confronted for their stupidity or have their opportunity to attend games rescinded.
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wordup

07 Aug 17 1.47pm

It was telling that noone bothered turning up to discuss this is person with Thomas. Lot's of keyboard warriors around. At the end of the day anyone hurling obscene statements whether they're monkey chants or stuff about 'queers' at a game should not be surprise if eventually they are confronted for their stupidity or have their opportunity to attend games rescinded.

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Stirlingsays 07 Aug 17 1.52pm
Originally posted by legaleagle So, getting back to the point,you don't propose crowds doing monkey chants in Europe should be censored (through bans) or educated. Nuff said. Part of the reason my kids' generation (from what I can see) have experienced a far less prejudiced educational environment than I or many of my generation did is through education. I kind of agree....to an extent with this last point...But it also annoys me because I've seen it be abused. I'll give you my experience as a secondary school teacher. In my classroom I didn't allow students to abuse others. It's a controlled environment....a kind of training for the workplace and behavior like that is unprofessional as well as wrong. So anyone that I caught using the word, 'gay' as a term of abuse got a phone call home. So after a while it didn't really happen. When I spoke to the parents I made the point that the reason I called was that it's important that the child learns that they need to treat people fairly and rationally in a professional environment. I most certainly didn't feel that it was my place to 'educate' them on which groups they should like or dislike....that's thought policing. I believe in a classroom being a controlled environment where everyone is safe. Supervising the playground this kind of 'censoring' idea is just unrealistic. Kids being bullied do need to report real bullying but you can't control what some wally says to another in the thousands of interactions....Any major thing, report it...but If you are the sensitive type who thinks words are violence.... get to the library. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Aug 2017 1.53pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Aug 17 1.52pm

Originally posted by legaleagle

So, getting back to the point,you don't propose crowds doing monkey chants in Europe should be censored (through bans) or educated.

Nuff said.

Part of the reason my kids' generation (from what I can see) have experienced a far less prejudiced educational environment than I or many of my generation did is through education.

I kind of agree....to an extent with this last point...But it also annoys me because I've seen it be abused.

I'll give you my experience as a secondary school teacher.

In my classroom I didn't allow students to abuse others. It's a controlled environment....a kind of training for the workplace and behavior like that is unprofessional as well as wrong. So anyone that I caught using the word, 'gay' as a term of abuse got a phone call home. So after a while it didn't really happen.

When I spoke to the parents I made the point that the reason I called was that it's important that the child learns that they need to treat people fairly and rationally in a professional environment. I most certainly didn't feel that it was my place to 'educate' them on which groups they should like or dislike....that's thought policing. I believe in a classroom being a controlled environment where everyone is safe.

Supervising the playground this kind of 'censoring' idea is just unrealistic. Kids being bullied do need to report real bullying but you can't control what some wally says to another in the thousands of interactions....Any major thing, report it...but If you are the sensitive type who thinks words are violence.... get to the library.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Aug 2017 1.53pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 07 Aug 17 1.57pm
Originally posted by wordup It was telling that noone bothered turning up to discuss this is person with Thomas. Lot's of keyboard warriors around. At the end of the day anyone hurling obscene statements whether they're monkey chants or stuff about 'queers' at a game should not be surprise if eventually they are confronted for their stupidity or have their opportunity to attend games rescinded. I suppose the worst offenders could perhaps be banned...If they are fairly identified....If they are given warnings and still won't desist. These are words chanted at a football game.....We have to be bloody careful with all this.....Whose's next on the hit list? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Aug 17 1.57pm

Originally posted by wordup

I suppose the worst offenders could perhaps be banned...If they are fairly identified....If they are given warnings and still won't desist.

These are words chanted at a football game.....We have to be bloody careful with all this.....Whose's next on the hit list?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Aug 17 1.59pm
Originally posted by wordup It was telling that noone bothered turning up to discuss this is person with Thomas. Lot's of keyboard warriors around. At the end of the day anyone hurling obscene statements whether they're monkey chants or stuff about 'queers' at a game should not be surprise if eventually they are confronted for their stupidity or have their opportunity to attend games rescinded. Some have accepted Gareth's offer and Gareth or the poster acting as Gareth has gone quiet. Cowardly to not meet Gareth? Possibly. Wise to not meet him due to their agenda and being stitched up? Probably. Stupid to post homophobic stuff on Gareth's thread that was likely to be used on BBC tv? Yep. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 07 Aug 17 1.59pm

Originally posted by wordup

Some have accepted Gareth's offer and Gareth or the poster acting as Gareth has gone quiet.

Cowardly to not meet Gareth? Possibly. Wise to not meet him due to their agenda and being stitched up? Probably. Stupid to post homophobic stuff on Gareth's thread that was likely to be used on BBC tv? Yep.

COYP

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Stirlingsays 07 Aug 17 2.00pm
For example.....I can agree with abusive chants about gay people at a match might piss them off....or anyone else really who doesn't want to hear it. But what about someone telling a gay joke? Is that going to be unacceptable as well? I heard a great 'gay' joke the other week....bloody funny. Should I be apologising for finding something funny? Do I need to 'educate' myself? Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Aug 2017 2.03pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Aug 17 2.00pm

For example.....I can agree with abusive chants about gay people at a match might piss them off....or anyone else really who doesn't want to hear it.

But what about someone telling a gay joke?

Is that going to be unacceptable as well?

I heard a great 'gay' joke the other week....bloody funny. Should I be apologising for finding something funny?

Do I need to 'educate' myself?

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Aug 2017 2.03pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Aug 17 2.04pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I suppose the worst offenders could perhaps be banned...If they are fairly identified....If they are given warnings and still won't desist. These are words chanted at a football game.....We have to be bloody careful with all this.....Whose's next on the hit list? Yes it's going OTT. We'll see what happens this season. I expect some fans from a few clubs being identified online and reported on local news tv. By the time we play them the songs might be sung by a few or nobody. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 07 Aug 17 2.04pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I suppose the worst offenders could perhaps be banned...If they are fairly identified....If they are given warnings and still won't desist.

These are words chanted at a football game.....We have to be bloody careful with all this.....Whose's next on the hit list?

Yes it's going OTT. We'll see what happens this season.

I expect some fans from a few clubs being identified online and reported on local news tv. By the time we play them the songs might be sung by a few or nobody.

COYP

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wordup 07 Aug 17 2.19pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays For example.....I can agree with abusive chants about gay people at a match might piss them off....or anyone else really who doesn't want to hear it. But what about someone telling a gay joke? Is that going to be unacceptable as well? I heard a great 'gay' joke the other week....bloody funny. Should I be apologising for finding something funny? Do I need to 'educate' myself? Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Aug 2017 2.03pm) There are degrees or everything and acknowledging that doesn't detract from the fact that formally or informally there are limits on the terraces. It's all about knowing your audience. From a personal point of view do I care if someone has a private joke with their mate involving the n word, not really. What's funny is subjective. If it's being yelled into my ear do I care about it. Yes. Apply that to sexuality or race at a game. If people want to pay for some kind of niche fetish service where they can berate a minority I'm sure they'll get takers. If they want to do that at an event I pay to get my kids into, no, do one. A very basic standard of behaviour is not too much to ask, especially when people are supposedly on the same team.
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wordup

07 Aug 17 2.19pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

For example.....I can agree with abusive chants about gay people at a match might piss them off....or anyone else really who doesn't want to hear it.

But what about someone telling a gay joke?

Is that going to be unacceptable as well?

I heard a great 'gay' joke the other week....bloody funny. Should I be apologising for finding something funny?

Do I need to 'educate' myself?

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Aug 2017 2.03pm)

There are degrees or everything and acknowledging that doesn't detract from the fact that formally or informally there are limits on the terraces.

It's all about knowing your audience. From a personal point of view do I care if someone has a private joke with their mate involving the n word, not really. What's funny is subjective. If it's being yelled into my ear do I care about it. Yes. Apply that to sexuality or race at a game.

If people want to pay for some kind of niche fetish service where they can berate a minority I'm sure they'll get takers. If they want to do that at an event I pay to get my kids into, no, do one. A very basic standard of behaviour is not too much to ask, especially when people are supposedly on the same team.

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