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Is Islam, the new Nazi ?
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nickgusset  Shizzlehurst 23 Jun 14 8.53am |
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Quote matt_himself at 23 Jun 2014 8.47am
Quote nickgusset at 23 Jun 2014 8.45am
Quote matt_himself at 23 Jun 2014 8.35am
Quote nickgusset at 23 Jun 2014 8.07am
Quote matt_himself at 23 Jun 2014 6.26am
Quote nickgusset at 22 Jun 2014 3.54pm
Quote matt_himself at 22 Jun 2014 3.37pm
Quote nickgusset at 22 Jun 2014 3.01pm
Quote matt_himself at 22 Jun 2014 2.53pm
Quote nickgusset at 22 Jun 2014 12.46pm
Quote matt_himself at 22 Jun 2014 11.37am
Quote nickgusset at 22 Jun 2014 9.43am
Quote matt_himself at 22 Jun 2014 9.07am
Interesting.
As an aside, How much did Dick Cheney's friends at Halliburton make from Iraq post invasion? There, IMHO, lies the real reason for the invasion. Edited by nickgusset (22 Jun 2014 9.52am) "Saddam was a tyrant, no doubt. But he kept a lid on the growth of fundamentalist groups which are now on the rise". So, in your mind, the Anfal campaign, using chemical weapons against the Kurds, the Kuwait invasion which involved the burning of one billion barrels of oil by the Iraqi Army, the violent repression of the Sh'iite uprising and the subsequent massacre of the Marsh Arabs was a form of acceptable social control? I would suggest that in Sadaam's day there was plenty of fundamentalist groups, the difference is that under the Democratic Iraq, they can stand to run the country in a democratic process and not be subjected to the tyranny experienced in his time. The fact that don't, is their doing and is not a symptom of democracy, it is a symptom of their inability to proceed in life in a civilised fashion.
This is precisely why I am completely against your politics. You speak a lot about what is wrong yet make or support no act that would actually resolve the situation. So you think it's ok for Saudi Arabia to have a repressive regime. By your logic, you should call for an invasion. Do you think it's okay for fracking companies to cause environmental disasters? Edited by nickgusset (22 Jun 2014 3.03pm)
Has Saudi Arabia used chemical weapons on its own people or set fire to over seven hundred oil pumps? What about your comrades in China? I don't see you criticising them and they arguably have a far more repressive regime than Saudi Arabia? When has Fracking caused a disaster close to Sadaam's actions in Kuwait (sure, you will trot out the Pennslyania spill, but that is nowhere near it)? The dangers of Fracking have not been proved. Like most of your empty rhetoric, it is theory.
Edited by nickgusset (22 Jun 2014 3.57pm) I was never contesting that. Please re-read my comments and find another angle to have a go at me. I was saying that the repression of groups and people was far more brutal in the days of Saddam and the real tragedy is that the fundamentalist groups, or rather the people in hem, have the opportunity to run the country under the current democracy, and are choosing to throw away this opportunity and engage in a seemingly never ending cycle of death. Wasn't having a go, just seeking clarification. I still contest that the invasion paved the way for the rise of fundamentalist groups making it easier for them to recruit. Anyone with half a brain would know that you don't just fall into democracy but one would hope that being given the opportunity, after decades of repression, that the people would give it a sustained go. A large part of the Iraqi populace do. Sadly, a sizeable minority wish to mimic Saddam. Which anyone with half a brain saw coming.
At least the Iraqi people have the choice of their own direction now and have democratic institutions. It takes time but unless people are freed from tyranny they will never have the opportunity to build something better.
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 matt_himself Matataland 23 Jun 14 11.41am |
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Gusset - I asked a few pages ago for evidence that the Saudi's have used chemical weapons against their own people or massacred great swathes of the population to ensure the hegemony prevails. I am still waiting for an answer. On this subject, what about your comrades in the peoples paradises of China, North Korea and Cuba? Plenty of repression going on there.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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Kermit8  Hevon 23 Jun 14 11.56am |
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Like a Mafia Godfather who directs others to do his dirty work for him so as not to get his own hands dirty so we have Saudi Arabia funding and, thus, encouraging groups who do partake in atrocities against civilian populations. Isis, for example.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 23 Jun 14 1.09pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 23 Jun 2014 11.41am
Gusset - I asked a few pages ago for evidence that the Saudi's have used chemical weapons against their own people or massacred great swathes of the population to ensure the hegemony prevails. I am still waiting for an answer. On this subject, what about your comrades in the peoples paradises of China, North Korea and Cuba? Plenty of repression going on there.
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Jun 14 2.38pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 23 Jun 2014 1.09pm
Quote matt_himself at 23 Jun 2014 11.41am
Gusset - I asked a few pages ago for evidence that the Saudi's have used chemical weapons against their own people or massacred great swathes of the population to ensure the hegemony prevails. I am still waiting for an answer. On this subject, what about your comrades in the peoples paradises of China, North Korea and Cuba? Plenty of repression going on there.
"we" (presume you mean US & UK governments) prefer the oppressors - they usually have more money and the power to broker deals for goods we like (such as oil).
Red and Blue Army! |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 23 Jun 14 2.57pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 23 Jun 2014 11.41am
Gusset - I asked a few pages ago for evidence that the Saudi's have used chemical weapons against their own people or massacred great swathes of the population to ensure the hegemony prevails. I am still waiting for an answer. On this subject, what about your comrades in the peoples paradises of China, North Korea and Cuba? Plenty of repression going on there. 1987, Mecca pilgrimage is the one that springs to mind. However the Saudi state has long supported the arrest, torture, secret trial and execution of Ismaili muslims. Whilst arguably not on a scale comparable to the Iraqi regime, Saudi Arabia is a notoriously oppressive regime heavily criticised for secret trials, imprisonment of dissidents, oppression of women, secret and public executions etc. Hardly a place worth defending.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 23 Jun 14 3.00pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jun 2014 2.37pm
Quote dannyh at 21 Jun 2014 2.33pm
Quote legaleagle at 21 Jun 2014 11.48am
That's simplistic and again reducing things to the usual convenient but red herring of left/right. London became "Londonstan" with a deliberate or blind eye policy allowing many "extremist" Sunni political and religious figures to operate here and then start to radicalise opinion in many Mosques ,in the eighties and nineties.......who was in power then? Similarly, the overreaction to 9/11 in terms of going into (completely unconnected to 9/11)Iraq which perhaps did more than anything else to radicalise domestic Muslim opinion was orchestrated by G Bush Jr's administration (hardly of the left) The issue/question of balance between taking on extremism and not demonising a whole religious group isn't assisted by sweeping generalisations Piss and waffle. And is indicative of the systematic excuse making that goes on in this country. There is a difference though between those who have an opinion, and those who act on it. By all means those directly involved in, and indirectly involved in sponsoring, acts of terrorism should be pursued to the full extent of the law. Those who aren't shouldn't be unless they cross that line. We should really have learned from Ireland that people with grevencies, real or imagined, aren't the same as those who kill, murder or fund terror. Its possible to believe in Sharia law, without being a terrorist.
They haven’t crossed the line in the eyes of the law and haven’t sponsored any terrorist activities, but they clearly support the actions of those who do, yet the authorities do nothing. The England first nutters and all those who fight back with words designed to annoy the Muslims they counter march against are often arrested for inciting racial hatred, why is the same not happening to the gangs of Muslims roaming streets in London taking alcohol off people and pressurising them to live as they live. There is no doubt in my mind that sooner or later there will be a back lash, people who actually live in areas where this sort of stuff is a daily occurrence are getting pissed of with it, dangerously so, IMO it won't be long before things turn ugly and lives are lost in the UK all in the name of some retarded backward thinking fcuking religion.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 23 Jun 14 3.02pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 23 Jun 2014 1.09pm
Quote matt_himself at 23 Jun 2014 11.41am
Gusset - I asked a few pages ago for evidence that the Saudi's have used chemical weapons against their own people or massacred great swathes of the population to ensure the hegemony prevails. I am still waiting for an answer. On this subject, what about your comrades in the peoples paradises of China, North Korea and Cuba? Plenty of repression going on there.
China are central to the US export economy, Saudi is a absolutely massive investor in the US, North Korea is too closely tied to China and Cuba, well they tried it with the Bay of Pigs, and continued support of Anti-Castro groups, with no real progress or success. Iraq, by the mid-90s, was one of the worlds largest oil reserves, which were dormant in the markets due to sanctions. The US oil reserve plan was dependent on Venezula, but with the rise of Chavez, they US need to secure new oil resources. Iraq, was probably the best option in those terms.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 23 Jun 14 3.17pm |
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Quote dannyh at 23 Jun 2014 3.00pm
Hmmmm, yes I get that to a degree, but what about the Muslims that march and protest about the country they live in, calling our troops murderer’s and vilifying Lee Rigbys killers, even proclaiming his killers as heroes’. I don't condone it. I don't like it, and I really get why you hate it. But, part of the fact of a democracy and free speech, is having to put up with idiots. The real problem is the media's total rush to poor the oxygen of publicity on to those fires. Lee Rigby has become an icon utilised by the far right, islamists and the media for agendas that has nothing to do with the man himself. Quote dannyh at 23 Jun 2014 3.00pm
They haven’t crossed the line in the eyes of the law and haven’t sponsored any terrorist activities, but they clearly support the actions of those who do, yet the authorities do nothing. What should the state do? Make protesting something illegal if you do it in a way that someone else takes offence at. The problem with the threat of 'Islam' is that its become a great publicity machine for the news media. 50,000 people protest austerity cuts outside the BBC, the news pays virtually no attention. 40 people are involved in burning poppies and its all over the media for weeks, with people blaming not the few, the Muslims in general. Quote dannyh at 23 Jun 2014 3.00pm
The England first nutters and all those who fight back with words designed to annoy the Muslims they counter march against are often arrested for inciting racial hatred, why is the same not happening to the gangs of Muslims roaming streets in London taking alcohol off people and pressurising them to live as they live. It should be, but my suspicion is that the scale is much smaller. The police should be policing those areas. In 2013 there were 5 arrests, and three prison convictions handed down. The other two were given ASBO orders preventing them from association etc. These relate direct to the Sharia Patrols. The coverage of their arrests and convictions didn't seem to carry the same level of press as their actions and videos. Quote dannyh at 23 Jun 2014 3.00pm
There is no doubt in my mind that sooner or later there will be a back lash, people who actually live in areas where this sort of stuff is a daily occurrence are getting pissed of with it, dangerously so, IMO it won't be long before things turn ugly and lives are lost in the UK all in the name of some retarded backward thinking fcuking religion. I think that happened. Its called the English Defence League and the British First Patrols (a Christian fundamentalist offshoot of the BNP/EDL). The problem again, small group of f**tards become a cause celeb for the media, who then don't make much of a fuss about the police shutting them down.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| legaleagle 23 Jun 14 5.11pm |
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A backlash is precisely what the nutters on both sides would like, to try and create an escalation and bigger sense of divide between the communities so there is no mixing and a feeling of no alternative to separation..Its an old age tactic. The statement issued by the East London Mosque,representing a wider segment of the local Muslim community, seemed to have got overlooked in many quarters: "Individuals claiming to be self-styled ‘Muslim patrols’ have been harassing members of the public on the streets of east London late at night, including outside our mosque after it has closed. They have anonymously uploaded their exploits to the internet. These actions are utterly unacceptable and clearly designed to stoke tensions and sow discord. We wholly condemn them. The East London Mosque is committed to building co-operation and harmony between all communities in this borough. The actions of this tiny minority have no place in our faith nor on our streets. Earlier this week we contacted the Police and the local authorities to alert them to the presence of these individuals and video. We advise anyone who has been harassed by these individuals to contact the Police. We will monitor the situation closely and our Imams will be speaking out against such actions."
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| legaleagle 23 Jun 14 5.12pm |
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or even an age old tactic
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| Stirlingsays 23 Jun 14 5.45pm |
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Quote legaleagle at 23 Jun 2014 5.11pm
A backlash is precisely what the nutters on both sides would like, to try and create an escalation and bigger sense of divide between the communities so there is no mixing and a feeling of no alternative to separation..Its an old age tactic. The statement issued by the East London Mosque,representing a wider segment of the local Muslim community, seemed to have got overlooked in many quarters: "Individuals claiming to be self-styled ‘Muslim patrols’ have been harassing members of the public on the streets of east London late at night, including outside our mosque after it has closed. They have anonymously uploaded their exploits to the internet. These actions are utterly unacceptable and clearly designed to stoke tensions and sow discord. We wholly condemn them. The East London Mosque is committed to building co-operation and harmony between all communities in this borough. The actions of this tiny minority have no place in our faith nor on our streets. Earlier this week we contacted the Police and the local authorities to alert them to the presence of these individuals and video. We advise anyone who has been harassed by these individuals to contact the Police. We will monitor the situation closely and our Imams will be speaking out against such actions."
No one should bother peaceful people but we all need to tackle the trouble makers.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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