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Mapletree Croydon 25 Jun 16 10.24pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman My point is that 1. Dave hasn't tried to stitch anyone up but resigned because his position is and will become more and more untenable after the changing of his stance and the exaggeration and BS (yes there was on both sides). 2. Sensibly, there needs to be a leader to kick start this 2 year process. As a new leader takes months and an election takes longer (although I'd like to see article 50 started after the leadership has been decided and not after an election), does anyone apart from remainers think it's wise to waste x months of a vital 2 years because a)the Guardian thinks we should, or b) cowardly bullies like Juncker think we should because he thinks he should make an example of us. 3. There will be 2 final candidates for tory leader. They all need to consider families, party support etc. Any candidates are as important as Boris. Boris assuming responsibility without the backing of his party, papers, sorry, bog roll like the Guardian would question his arrogance. In fact they'll do that without an election and waste nearly a year of the 2 years of article 50. They need to hold their nerve and ignore this cr&p, see how willing to play hard ball the Germans and French are so close to General Elections. Still not really getting your point. It was interesting the way that Juncker was so aggressive in saying the UK needed to exit quickly. On the other hand, there is a logic relating to so much going on hold until its sorted out. This won't just paralyse the UK. But the question raised in the article is who would want to be Prime Minister and see this through. It seems to me that Brexit politicians will insist it's pushed through, a point that seems to be lacking in the Grauniad article. But who will they mobilise that is prepared to go down in history not only as someone that took the UK out of the EU but also on whose watch the Scots - and maybe the Northern Irish but that seems unlikely - left the UK. Or just maybe Matt is near the mark and this is still a big game of chicken to try to wring out concessions from the EU before we say it's OK, we were only joking. If so this could backfire, we could never again play that card and could become a lame duck with the EU. May even have to go crawling back to them begging forgiveness. That would not be good.
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Mapletree

Croydon 25 Jun 16 10.24pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

My point is that

1. Dave hasn't tried to stitch anyone up but resigned because his position is and will become more and more untenable after the changing of his stance and the exaggeration and BS (yes there was on both sides).

2. Sensibly, there needs to be a leader to kick start this 2 year process. As a new leader takes months and an election takes longer (although I'd like to see article 50 started after the leadership has been decided and not after an election), does anyone apart from remainers think it's wise to waste x months of a vital 2 years because a)the Guardian thinks we should, or b) cowardly bullies like Juncker think we should because he thinks he should make an example of us.

3. There will be 2 final candidates for tory leader. They all need to consider families, party support etc. Any candidates are as important as Boris. Boris assuming responsibility without the backing of his party, papers, sorry, bog roll like the Guardian would question his arrogance. In fact they'll do that without an election and waste nearly a year of the 2 years of article 50. They need to hold their nerve and ignore this cr&p, see how willing to play hard ball the Germans and French are so close to General Elections.

Still not really getting your point.

It was interesting the way that Juncker was so aggressive in saying the UK needed to exit quickly. On the other hand, there is a logic relating to so much going on hold until its sorted out. This won't just paralyse the UK.

But the question raised in the article is who would want to be Prime Minister and see this through. It seems to me that Brexit politicians will insist it's pushed through, a point that seems to be lacking in the Grauniad article. But who will they mobilise that is prepared to go down in history not only as someone that took the UK out of the EU but also on whose watch the Scots - and maybe the Northern Irish but that seems unlikely - left the UK.

Or just maybe Matt is near the mark and this is still a big game of chicken to try to wring out concessions from the EU before we say it's OK, we were only joking. If so this could backfire, we could never again play that card and could become a lame duck with the EU. May even have to go crawling back to them begging forgiveness. That would not be good.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 25 Jun 16 10.32pm
[Link] This film shows why this Italian journalist thinks brexit is the best thing for the UK. Echoes a bit what I've said about the neoliberal agenda of the EU and the 'authoritarian control' they have over EU countries. (sorry the link is via facebook)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 25 Jun 16 10.32pm

[Link]

This film shows why this Italian journalist thinks brexit is the best thing for the UK. Echoes a bit what I've said about the neoliberal agenda of the EU and the 'authoritarian control' they have over EU countries.

(sorry the link is via facebook)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Jun 16 10.46pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Still not really getting your point. It was interesting the way that Juncker was so aggressive in saying the UK needed to exit quickly. On the other hand, there is a logic relating to so much going on hold until its sorted out. This won't just paralyse the UK. But the question raised in the article is who would want to be Prime Minister and see this through. It seems to me that Brexit politicians will insist it's pushed through, a point that seems to be lacking in the Grauniad article. But who will they mobilise that is prepared to go down in history not only as someone that took the UK out of the EU but also on whose watch the Scots - and maybe the Northern Irish but that seems unlikely - left the UK. Or just maybe Matt is near the mark and this is still a big game of chicken to try to wring out concessions from the EU before we say it's OK, we were only joking. If so this could backfire, we could never again play that card and could become a lame duck with the EU. May even have to go crawling back to them begging forgiveness. That would not be good. I don't know if I'm being vague because of alcohol or what but it's been 36 hours since the result and the grauniad wants to see Boris go full steam ahead. I wonder why. For a start they need to have a leader confident he has the backing of enough MP's and can form a cabinet. Then there is time wasted if article 50 is started without any negotiations/meetings taking place/laws considered/lawyers hired etc. This isn't a matter of writing a 3 page A4 document. EU law is over thousands of pages. Many lawyers will be needed, and that's before tariiff negotiations laymen understand more. On your post. I agree with the paralysing of EU interests. The Euro has taken a hit and so has the Dax and CAC 40. I spoke to someone earlier about this, German exports and German and French elections coming up. This is the prime time to negotiate. I agree with Matt's hypothesis. It could well happen. I won't be happy. I'd rather, in order: 1. be out and out with controlling immigration. 2. be out but be in the single market with free movement. (I'd be unhappy but it'd mean a clean break when the inevitable happens and the EU crashes) 3. Matt's theory. Be in and have very little influence. We can't have any less than we had but it's humiliating and will be costly in several defaults and the eventual collapse. Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 Jun 2016 10.48pm) Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 Jun 2016 10.49pm) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 25 Jun 16 10.46pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Still not really getting your point.

I don't know if I'm being vague because of alcohol or what but it's been 36 hours since the result and the grauniad wants to see Boris go full steam ahead. I wonder why.

For a start they need to have a leader confident he has the backing of enough MP's and can form a cabinet.

Then there is time wasted if article 50 is started without any negotiations/meetings taking place/laws considered/lawyers hired etc. This isn't a matter of writing a 3 page A4 document. EU law is over thousands of pages. Many lawyers will be needed, and that's before tariiff negotiations laymen understand more.

On your post. I agree with the paralysing of EU interests. The Euro has taken a hit and so has the Dax and CAC 40. I spoke to someone earlier about this, German exports and German and French elections coming up. This is the prime time to negotiate.

I agree with Matt's hypothesis. It could well happen. I won't be happy. I'd rather, in order:

1. be out and out with controlling immigration.

2. be out but be in the single market with free movement. (I'd be unhappy but it'd mean a clean break when the inevitable happens and the EU crashes)

3. Matt's theory. Be in and have very little influence. We can't have any less than we had but it's humiliating and will be costly in several defaults and the eventual collapse.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 Jun 2016 10.48pm)

Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 Jun 2016 10.49pm)

COYP

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 10.49pm
Not my own words but.... A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 10.49pm

Not my own words but....

A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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blackpalacefan 25 Jun 16 10.56pm
People love a bit of an idealogical kick about but im sensing that as far apart as people are, we're all now unsure of what comes next and are on the same page with that. On a basic level we all love our country and no matter our differences want it to succeed. People have different ideas about how to achieve that aim, but we all want to see a better tomorrow for our kids. I have no idea what comes next or who wins or loses. We've cast our votes and now its out of our hands regardless of whether we're dead set on our vote or have buyer remorse. it's all down to MPs now.
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blackpalacefan

25 Jun 16 10.56pm

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People love a bit of an idealogical kick about but im sensing that as far apart as people are, we're all now unsure of what comes next and are on the same page with that. On a basic level we all love our country and no matter our differences want it to succeed. People have different ideas about how to achieve that aim, but we all want to see a better tomorrow for our kids. I have no idea what comes next or who wins or loses. We've cast our votes and now its out of our hands regardless of whether we're dead set on our vote or have buyer remorse. it's all down to MPs now.

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 10.57pm
Originally posted by blackpalacefan People love a bit of an idealogical kick about but im sensing that as far apart as people are, we're all now unsure of what comes next and are on the same page with that. On a basic level we all love our country and no matter our differences want it to succeed. People have different ideas about how to achieve that aim, but we all want to see a better tomorrow for our kids. I have no idea what comes next or who wins or loses. We've cast our votes and now its out of our hands regardless of whether we're dead set on our vote or have buyer remorse. it's all down to MPs now. Top man. Excellent post. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 10.57pm

Originally posted by blackpalacefan

Top man. Excellent post.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Rubin 25 Jun 16 10.59pm
Originally posted by nickgusset [Link] This film shows why this Italian journalist thinks brexit is the best thing for the UK. Echoes a bit what I've said about the neoliberal agenda of the EU and the 'authoritarian control' they have over EU countries. (sorry the link is via facebook) Thanks very much for that Nick, very interesting and would be good to know how accurate his figures are. Can't see why he'd have any reason to make them up. A few on this thread should watch it to give them a bit more of an optimistic outlook, as if we're going to make this most of this opportunity, we need everyone to be pulling in the same direction.
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Rubin

25 Jun 16 10.59pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

[Link]

(sorry the link is via facebook)

Thanks very much for that Nick, very interesting and would be good to know how accurate his figures are. Can't see why he'd have any reason to make them up.

A few on this thread should watch it to give them a bit more of an optimistic outlook, as if we're going to make this most of this opportunity, we need everyone to be pulling in the same direction.

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 11.02pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I don't know if I'm being vague because of alcohol or what but it's been 36 hours since the result and the grauniad wants to see Boris go full steam ahead. I wonder why. For a start they need to have a leader confident he has the backing of enough MP's and can form a cabinet. Then there is time wasted if article 50 is started without any negotiations/meetings taking place/laws considered/lawyers hired etc. This isn't a matter of writing a 3 page A4 document. EU law is over thousands of pages. Many lawyers will be needed, and that's before tariiff negotiations laymen understand more. On your post. I agree with the paralysing of EU interests. The Euro has taken a hit and so has the Dax and CAC 40. I spoke to someone earlier about this, German exports and German and French elections coming up. This is the prime time to negotiate. I agree with Matt's hypothesis. It could well happen. I won't be happy. I'd rather, in order: 1. be out and out with controlling immigration. 2. be out but be in the single market with free movement. (I'd be unhappy but it'd mean a clean break when the inevitable happens and the EU crashes) 3. Matt's theory. Be in and have very little influence. We can't have any less than we had but it's humiliating and will be costly in several defaults and the eventual collapse. Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 Jun 2016 10.48pm) Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 Jun 2016 10.49pm) My only reservation (if you can call it that) is that a lot of people are going to blame the UK when it does eventually crash and burn, even though it is obvious (especially to the UK electorate) that it is inevitable. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 11.02pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I don't know if I'm being vague because of alcohol or what but it's been 36 hours since the result and the grauniad wants to see Boris go full steam ahead. I wonder why.

For a start they need to have a leader confident he has the backing of enough MP's and can form a cabinet.

I agree with Matt's hypothesis. It could well happen. I won't be happy. I'd rather, in order:

1. be out and out with controlling immigration.

2. be out but be in the single market with free movement. (I'd be unhappy but it'd mean a clean break when the inevitable happens and the EU crashes)

3. Matt's theory. Be in and have very little influence. We can't have any less than we had but it's humiliating and will be costly in several defaults and the eventual collapse.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 Jun 2016 10.48pm)

Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 Jun 2016 10.49pm)

My only reservation (if you can call it that) is that a lot of people are going to blame the UK when it does eventually crash and burn, even though it is obvious (especially to the UK electorate) that it is inevitable.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Mapletree Croydon 25 Jun 16 11.02pm
Apparently Brexit will trigger a domino effect: Grexit Departugal Italeave Czechout Outstria Finish Slovakout Latervia Byegium Only Remania will stay.
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Mapletree

Croydon 25 Jun 16 11.02pm

Apparently Brexit will trigger a domino effect:

Grexit
Departugal
Italeave
Czechout
Outstria
Finish
Slovakout
Latervia
Byegium

Only Remania will stay.

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Rubin 25 Jun 16 11.04pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Apparently Brexit will trigger a domino effect: Grexit Departugal Italeave Czechout Outstria Finish Slovakout Latervia Byegium Only Remania will stay.
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Rubin

25 Jun 16 11.04pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Apparently Brexit will trigger a domino effect:

Grexit
Departugal
Italeave
Czechout
Outstria
Finish
Slovakout
Latervia
Byegium

Only Remania will stay.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Jun 16 11.15pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Apparently Brexit will trigger a domino effect: Grexit Departugal Italeave Czechout Outstria Finish Slovakout Latervia Byegium Only Remania will stay. eSpandexit could happen before a lot of those. France won't just because they get preferential treatment. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 25 Jun 16 11.15pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Apparently Brexit will trigger a domino effect:

Grexit
Departugal
Italeave
Czechout
Outstria
Finish
Slovakout
Latervia
Byegium

Only Remania will stay.

eSpandexit could happen before a lot of those. France won't just because they get preferential treatment.

COYP

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