Just think of the amount of lives that could have been saved if we had met Hitler's demands!

So you take the zero article you posted at complete face value with little evidence (i'm not even saying it isn't true), but convince yourself that endless incidents like this mean nothing [Link] You can't see why a country invading another might target its population? I think I should've just given up when I posted a Russian war crime caught on multiple CCTV with countless people to verify it and you started talking about the odd 'position of shadows' and how it must be therefore be bulls***.

I'm not saying anyone gets the balance 100% right, but you've been completely brainwashed and unfortunately therefore see that in others. How dead set you are on something that both rationally makes no sense and we basically know not to be know is unnerving. The only people on here backing you up on your outlook are 'buttering up' types who crave having absolutely anyone on side due to holding a litany of line treading perspectives. You're being used by both them and your media. Hate others media by all means, extend it to your own 'media', switch it all off, and then you might regain a sense of who you likely once were.

Edited by BlueJay (14 Jun 2022 12.26pm)

It all smacks of one big publicity push by Zelenskyy, to try and re-start his faltering comedy career. When he gets another series, all this war stuff will go away.

I disengage, I turn the page.

As I've explained multiple times the population of the Donbas is generally supportive of the Russian regime and many of the people you call "Ukrainians" are in fact separatists fighting on the Russian side who now hold vast swathes of the Donbas (you could easily verify this for yourself). They are not looking for the Ukrainian army to "liberate" them. As for your proof of Russian atrocities you are citing the so called incident where the Russians were supposed to have turned in a white transit van with some non-existent military unit painted on the side? (wish I could find that photo). The whole thing was laughable but your bought it hook line and sinker.

"you've been completely brainwashed" is just projection mate and spare me the amateur psychology again which seems to be your default when faced with facts.

"I'm open to the idea that Russians or Separatists attacked civilians but I see neither any direct evidence or a clear motive and I no longer believe anything our media are telling us. "

You believe that. I believe this

"Any instances that result in civilian attack or deaths whether Ukranian or Russia are rightly comdened by any decent person when they are highlighted. I'm not the one denying all and any instances of civilain attacks by one side, or passing it off as fake news, propoganda or saying that wicked nazis must have occupied these areas and that's why civilians got caught up in it. That is the difference. When Russia bombed a maternity hospital the amount of excusing, denying and consiracy theories pumped out of here to avoid the facts and acknowledge the suffering was staggering. And nothing has changed in those attitudes since."

As you've done today you lap anything anti Ukraine up as truth [Link] and remain completely in denial when Russia does worse [Link]

Little more to add. You're the one with the warped, one way outlook - and your posting of a Brit in fear of his life being interogated by a Kremlin stooge as something speaking in your favour shows where you're at with this.

Maybe find out who Marianna Vyshemirskaya is and what's she's been saying to various journalists. I'm sure you won't.